New Deep tube trains for Piccadilly line.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,297
re-boring tunnels is enormously difficult, especially where the tunnels are wrapped around various foundations, basements, other tunnels, services etc.

Certainly, if you were boring the tunnels from scratch they'd not twist as much- you'd also propose doing them mainline size (though this would result in some fairly major land reclamation somewhere- or the construction of an actual mountain) with straight and level wide open platforms
 

Nym

Established Member
Joined
2 Mar 2007
Messages
8,335
Location
Somewhere, not in London
I hope the Bakerloo line stock gets a VERY extensive refurb. Its already the tattiest stock on the tube.
Well, it's been argreed it will have 'life extention works' done, but the extent of these as of yet, no-one's informed me...

To be honest, the magnitude of work depends on how much longer they want the units to last...
 
Last edited:

Nozzacook

Member
Joined
3 Sep 2013
Messages
24
I agree the 72ts need a cosmetic referb but mechanically it should be sound as it covers far fewer miles a day compared to the 73ts.
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
5,718
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
Well some parts from the 1967 stock have been used on the 1972 stock. I have seen a few with light blue grab polls.

I wouldnt be too surprised if a few of the 1973 stock did end up on the Baerklooo line perhaps replacing the oldest examples of the 1972 stock.

That said some of the 1973 stock will more than likely end up on the Isle of wight surprised non of the 1967 stock were overhauled/refurbished and sent over there.
I think the reason given for the 73 stock to move to the Isle of Wight over the 72 stock is the lack of cab end doors. The extensive refurb they've been given is im sure a factor too!

I hear the ex-Vic 72 Mk1s still exist in storage somewhere. .
Eastleigh. Some of the ex Vic line cars are being made into LULs test trains, whilst others are in storage. Pretty sure some cars of the Vic lines cars were converted ex Northern Line 72 Mk1 stock as well, which would make ripe use for integrating into the 72 Stock on the Bakerloo line.

Speaking of, some of the tightest curves along that route can also be found in the Oxford Circus area, as well as coming into Piccadilly Circus and the approaches into Paddington.

Finally - I'd like to hope that the designers of any new tube stock for the Piccadilly line take one thing into account, Heathrow. One of the reasons for the 73s extensive refurb was to make better provision for the Airport luggage, so hopefully, any designers of any new stock take this and create a design better than the one shown on the first page - which I notice hasn't really got any wheelchair spaces in sight too.
 

Nym

Established Member
Joined
2 Mar 2007
Messages
8,335
Location
Somewhere, not in London
New elastic bands... :lol:
I can safely say the elastic bands on that train are replaced already as routine maintnenance ;)

I agree the 72ts need a cosmetic referb but mechanically it should be sound as it covers far fewer miles a day compared to the 73ts.
The life extention works are scoped to cover mechanical repairs. It may cover less miles per day but the fleet utilisation requirement is one of the highest in the country. (33/36)

Eastleigh. Some of the ex Vic line cars are being made into LULs test trains, whilst others are in storage. Pretty sure some cars of the Vic lines cars were converted ex Northern Line 72 Mk1 stock as well, which would make ripe use for integrating into the 72 Stock on the Bakerloo line.

Speaking of, some of the tightest curves along that route can also be found in the Oxford Circus area, as well as coming into Piccadilly Circus and the approaches into Paddington.

Finally - I'd like to hope that the designers of any new tube stock for the Piccadilly line take one thing into account, Heathrow. One of the reasons for the 73s extensive refurb was to make better provision for the Airport luggage, so hopefully, any designers of any new stock take this and create a design better than the one shown on the first page - which I notice hasn't really got any wheelchair spaces in sight too.
There are currently four cars being converted into a 'test train' two ex 67TS and two ex. 72TS that where re-numbered into the 67TS ranges. Very significant mechanical work is being carried out in order to life extend the cars.
 

announcements

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2011
Messages
279
What will happen to the drivers? Will they all become captains?
Probably 'Passenger Service Agents' as they're known as on the DLR... I'm certainly not a fan of this terminology!

---

You may have noticed that a new thread has been created to raise awareness of the mock up of the new Siemens train. I'm glad they've reverted back to the 'EVO' concept (albeit now branded as 'Inspiro') rather than the 'New Train for London' we saw in the first page of this thread... the 'EVO' is a lot more radical in its design.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,467
Location
UK
The new design isn't that radical beyond the front cab (which won't stay like that) and the gangways (which hopefully will).
 

announcements

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2011
Messages
279
I believe that this new concept train is as radical as the 1986ts would have been back in the late '80s. And why shouldn't the front stay like that? I'm very impressed by this mock-up and can't wait to see it in the flesh.
 

announcements

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2011
Messages
279
What will happen to the drivers? Will they all become captains?
I visited the other day and I can confirm that these trains will still have a driver's cab and so will be as automatic as the Vic/Jub/Central/Northern lines where there is a 'train operator' who deals with the doors etc. It won't be like the DLR in the sense that the passenger/customer can see out the front-window.
 

Peter Mugridge

Established Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
10,881
Location
Epsom
Blimey, Paris has had more advanced stuff for years now; Lines 14 and 1 have fully walk through ( like the S Stock and 378s ) driverless trains with DLR style see through front ends; they don't even need a "Captain" on them.
 

Harlesden

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2010
Messages
968
Location
LONDON NW10
In this challenging economic climate, does it really make sense to spend millions on a totally new design?
Do we really need walk through articulated tube trains?
Do we really need painfully bright new lighting?
Why not just a brand new build of the current designs incorporating the new technology which did not exist when the original build was delivered.
A train exists to get you from A to B. Nobody particularly cares what the exterior looks like provided it is kept clean.
 

NSEFAN

Established Member
Joined
17 Jun 2007
Messages
3,318
Location
Southampton
Harlesden said:
In this challenging economic climate, does it really make sense to spend millions on a totally new design?
Do we really need walk through articulated tube trains?
Do we really need painfully bright new lighting?
Why not just a brand new build of the current designs incorporating the new technology which did not exist when the original build was delivered.
A train exists to get you from A to B. Nobody particularly cares what the exterior looks like provided it is kept clean.
Do we know which, if any, of the new features will actually cost more money? The physical shape of the train isn't that radical compared to the current designs, only the front is a different shape. I would imagine most of the new technology is under the hood, and that will be the expensive bit.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,467
Location
UK
LED lighting might cost a bit more but it has many advantages (energy consumption, life, ability to keep going from emergency power etc).

I am sure other new materials and designs will help the train last for longer, be easier to clean etc.
 

a729

Member
Joined
2 Mar 2013
Messages
158
Well some parts from the 1967 stock have been used on the 1972 stock. I have seen a few with light blue grab polls.

I wouldnt be too surprised if a few of the 1973 stock did end up on the Baerklooo line perhaps replacing the oldest examples of the 1972 stock.

That said some of the 1973 stock will more than likely end up on the Isle of wight surprised non of the 1967 stock were overhauled/refurbished and sent over there.
So the Isle of Wight gets all London's hand me downs?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Be great to see one standard design for 'all deep tube lines' other than the Victorian Line. sad to see these plans would not include that. None the less, it is a start. Perhaps once they have done enough to replace 1972 and 1973 stocks, they may then decide it is time for 1992 stock to go too.

Having said that, could they not have the Northern line operate with a combination of existing 1995 stock and the new stock too?

QUESTIONS,

Q1: would the sum of 1992 stock on Central and Waterloo lines be enough to cater for the proposed Northern line expansion?

If so, they could put all 1992 stock onto the Northern line, and 1995 stock onto central, and the new stock on Waterloo - City?
1992 stock is dodgy stock and won't be around anywhere as long as the 1972 stock! It increasingly looks like the 1972 stock will outlive the 1992 stock!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Speaking of, some of the tightest curves along that route can also be found in the Oxford Circus area, as well as coming into Piccadilly Circus and the approaches into Paddington.
There must be some sharp curves around Waterloo as the platforms all curved and the train makes lots of noise on the approach!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
LED lighting might cost a bit more but it has many advantages (energy consumption, life, ability to keep going from emergency power etc).

I am sure other new materials and designs will help the train last for longer, be easier to clean etc.
I imagine that the new trains will be less comfortable than those on the 72(or even 73) stock! the 09 stock has terrible seating!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top