New ICE Seats and Interior - Putting UK trains to shame

[Stadtbahn]

Deutsche Bahn have announced that from 2023 all new ICEs will have a completely new interior design including new seats. What can I say - I think it looks absolutely amazing and shows exactly what is wrong with UK railways: The lighting looks incredibly warm and welcoming compared to the clinical, overly bright lighting on IETs, there is wooden panelling rather than plastic plastic plastic everywhere, there are comfortable seats with large headrests rather than ironing board seats, and also a proper on-board restaurant (obviously nothing new).

Das neue Design im ICE | marsDB-Mediaportal

Das neue Design im ICE

mediaportal.deutschebahn.com

Neues Design für neue Ansprüche: im ICE wohlfühlen wie im eigenen Wohnzimmer

www.deutschebahn.com

Sadly, the links are in German but there are some great photos.

What do you guys think?

 

[StephenHunter]

Looks very nice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would say inferior to the present setup. In particular the "bench" style seats will be very claustrophobic and First Class legroom looks poor. I like the wood (harks back to the Metropolitan sets), but otherwise it's a no from me.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would say inferior to the present setup. In particular the "bench" style seats will be very claustrophobic and First Class legroom looks poor. I like the wood (harks back to the Metropolitan sets), but otherwise it's a no from me.

Agreed. The current ICE interiors make the IET interior look like a sick joke, but this update is no improvement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW I think they are the same seats as the SBB "Giruno" sets, but I have no idea what they are exactly.

Definitely inferior to the Grammer ICE3000 which is most of the current ones (but not all, there's also a Fainsa clone).

 

[yorksrob]

I think we could do with similar seat designs over here (with mogquette). They seem to have a decent amount of padding anyway.

 

[the sniper]

Will it be in the Talgo stock too?

 

[gaillark]

Looks good. Like the smoked glass privacy screens in First Class (like we had on the MK4's when BR introduced them), the table lamps (which Avanti are removing), the restaurant is good and seat padding looks decent. Warm soft lighting and good use of softer furnishings.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks good. Like the smoked glass privacy screens in First Class (like we had on the MK4's when BR introduced them), the table lamps (which Avanti are removing), the restaurant is good and seat padding looks decent. Warm soft lighting and good use of softer furnishings.

I certainly like the wood (and it'll be real wood, though to be fair the TPE interiors are fake wood and look pretty classy even so). The seats won't be bad, but they don't look quite as good as the current ones, and blocking off the space between them will give a claustrophobic feel a bit like 222s (though to be fair one man's claustrophobic is another man's cosy).

Interestingly Avanti is adding some privacy screens (not between every bay) in 1st on the Pendolino refurbs, but they don't look as good, they look more like bolt-on COVID screens even though that's not their purpose.

 

[tornado]

In my opinion the best modern interior in a European intercity train has to be the new TGV L'Oceane on the Paris Bordeaux Line. 1st class in those is superb in every respect (personal experience).

 

[Bletchleyite]

That does look classy but similarly a bit claustrophobic. One thing I like about the present ICE interior is how airy and open it feels. The Greater Anglia Stadlers have a similar feel.

Pic (ICE4 1st) - from seat61.com:

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That does look classy but similarly a bit claustrophobic. One thing I like about the present ICE interior is how airy and open it feels. The Greater Anglia Stadlers have a similar feel.

Pic (ICE4 1st) - from seat61.com:

Those are the sort of second generation class seats; I don't like them as much. I took an original ICE 3 the other day (has to be my favourite train abroad) and it had the original ones which are softer, wider and recline.

 

[DanielB]

Will it be in the Talgo stock too?

Yes, both in ICE3neo and ICE-L. The latter being the Talgo sets.
So only trains with this interior on ICE services to Amsterdam, as ICE3neo would replace the ICE3M.

Looks a lot better than the common interior in the domestic trains here. How it actually is experienced in real life is a matter of patience.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I would say inferior to the present setup. In particular the "bench" style seats will be very claustrophobic and First Class legroom looks poor. I like the wood (harks back to the Metropolitan sets), but otherwise it's a no from me.

I forgot to say I agree with this; both the fact it looks inferior to the current sets (particularly original ICE 3 and T) and also that use of wood is very classy.

 

[Snow1964]

When you compare the second class to what you get in UK on longish cross country journeys like Cardiff-Portsmouth, then it is different world

Of course many ICE sets are run on German cross country services, not just services to/from the capital city

 

[jamesontheroad]

Very happy to see the end of leather in first class. (Leather first class seats in the UK are just horrible... grimy and slippy). We have this strange cultural association between leather and luxury, when in fact leather is sticky and clammy in hot weather and a less "grippy" than woven textiles. Look at the earliest motor cars and you can see that the driver had leather because it was considered a durable and workmanlike material, while the passengers had fabric.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course many ICE sets are run on German cross country services, not just services to/from the capital city

Germany has a very distributed economy so there isn't the same need for "primary" and "secondary" services to the capital and other cities.

 

[Shinkansenfan]

Not impressed. Not excited.

IMO the first generation ICE (original trainsets) first class seats were large, comfortable and ergonomic. Some even had video screens. There were delightful interior features of the cabin that make it a joy to behold. These? Meh.

Successive ICE interiors have trended downwards to today's sad first class ICE interior where the seats appear (to me) to be the same width as 2cl, with the only difference being 2-1 versus 2-2 seating configuration.

This new interior seems to have less 1cl legroom, and continues with the bland grey interior cabin scheme popular on railways (witness new VIA trainsets) that I find depressing and unimaginative. I cannot tell if small touches as folding tables (where there is a bay of four seats) to make it easier for the window seat passenger to enter his/her seat are provided. I cannot tell if any of the seats recline.

Not a big fan of the lamps placed next to the window; it partially blocks the view (particularly if you have an aisle seat), and at night, if there is no light switch, creates glare if you want to look out the window or if the window seat passenger wants the light on.

The bistro car seating does not look very comfortable. I cannot tell if the large tables have fold up access for those seated near the window. The bar seats seem small for a moving train. Some of the interior features look clunky, such as the "bolt on" translucent partition affixed to the back of the banquette seating.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

This is only a mock-up, but carriages with compartments are to be withdrawn to make way for these, a main reason is to squeeze in as many seats as possible.

As for the "lighting concept", I much prefer natural daylight where possible. Unfortunately ICEs run so much in tunnels, cuttings, behind Laermschutzwaende/noise screens that artificial light is needed much of the time.

Perhaps roof windows could be added, like in the ICE 1 restaurant cars.

 

[Davester50]

The seats look solid, the rest looks fine, particularly the wood effect.

 

[the sniper]

Yes, both in ICE3neo and ICE-L. The latter being the Talgo sets.

Good to hear there should be uniformity, thanks.

 

[DanielB]

Good to hear there should be uniformity, thanks.

Less uniformity than I thought however. Read in the mean time that the first half of the first batch of ICE3neo has a different interior design.

 

[TRAX]

That does look classy but similarly a bit claustrophobic.

(re TGV L’Océane)

I see what you mean but this would be more due to the double-deck architecture than the design itself.
Plus, one’s claustrophobic is another’s cosy !

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see what you mean but this would be more due to the double-deck architecture than the design itself.

Partly that, but also partly the lack of gap between the headrests. I find the same thing makes 222s feel very claustrophobic despite being more spacious than 220/221s. While I'd not compare the two directly, this is the reason for the shape of "ironing board" seats.

 

[Mag_seven]

I think I'll reserve judgement on this until I've actually travelled on one.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think I'll reserve judgement on this until I've actually travelled on one.

Same for me I think! The general style seems pretty good (though the ICE style was already pretty good!) from the photos but one one concern is that the seats look rock hard but the truth in that is always with the sitting. So hard to give a final judgement really. Either way, the contrast with our DfT specified IETs and long distance trains on the Continent like the ICE family remains stark and not in the IETs favour...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Same for me I think! The general style seems pretty good (though the ICE style was already pretty good!) from the photos but one one concern is that the seats look rock hard but the truth in that is always with the sitting. So hard to give a final judgement really. Either way, the contrast with our DfT specified IETs and long distance trains on the Continent like the ICE family remains stark and not in the IETs favour...

While I think the TPE interior designs are almost as classy as the ICE (the latter wins on it being actual wood rather than plastic), I think it would be hard to be worse than the Fainsa Sophia, which DB, correctly, only uses as a regional seat.

 

[TRAX]

Partly that, but also partly the lack of gap between the headrests. I find the same thing makes 222s feel very claustrophobic despite being more spacious than 220/221s. While I'd not compare the two directly, this is the reason for the shape of "ironing board" seats.

Surely more headrest means more comfort though ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely more headrest means more comfort though ?

I wouldn't agree. What you want is a headrest that will support your head in place if you want a kip. If it's too wide you slump sideways.

Of the two types of Grammer IC3000, I actually find the small headrests more comfortable (and less claustrophobic).

 

[37201xoIM]

Very happy to see the end of leather in first class. (Leather first class seats in the UK are just horrible... grimy and slippy). We have this strange cultural association between leather and luxury, when in fact leather is sticky and clammy in hot weather and a less "grippy" than woven textiles. Look at the earliest motor cars and you can see that the driver had leather because it was considered a durable and workmanlike material, while the passengers had fabric.

Well said!!!

I could not agree more and have always been utterly puzzled by its appearance and proliferation in FC. If DB are really ditching it, as someone who would be in the market for FC travel, I will be delighted and certainly more inclined to travel in FC.

I do also wonder anyway about the sustainability of the production of leather?