• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

New image of Hitachi / Bomardier HS2 train

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
98,292
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Crikey, has someone actually managed to sell Hitachi on the benefits of plug doors?

Otherwise I guess it (unsurprisingly) looks a bit like an 80x with a pointier nose.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,520
Location
GWR land
I think it looks quite nice - at least better than some of the images used by the media to describe HS2. I agree with @Bletchleyite in that it does look quite like a Class 80x; the nose being one of the main differences.

-Peter
 

dgl

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2014
Messages
2,422
Have they got permission from First for using Dynamic Lines :D
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
I'm not really seeing the similarities to an 80x myself. It's good to see what look like lightweight bogies, as well as a rather aerodynamic train, unlike the 80x "just plonk boxes on the roof" approach
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,978
What happens to this joint venture when Alstom take on Bombardier's rail interests in early 2021?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,528
What happens to this joint venture when Alstom take on Bombardier's rail interests in early 2021?
Nothing significant. It was cleared to continue with conditions.

There’s an EU statement about it here, but it isn’t that detailed:
 

Gag Halfrunt

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2019
Messages
586
Nothing significant. It was cleared to continue with conditions.

One of those conditions is exiting the joint venture with Hitachi.

  • the transfer of Bombardier’s contribution in the current and future Bombardier/Hitachi Zefiro very-high-speed multiple-unit platform to Hitachi (V300 Zefiro in Italy and HS2 bid for the UK)

 

Wapps

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
107
Location
London
The windows are rectangular?
Maybe it’s my eyes, but they look more squarish than your typical train (eg 390), even if not an exact square.

I presume this spells the end of the visual look of Hitachi’s British Very High Speed Train - AT400. The AT400 looked more like a Class 80x.
 

Attachments

  • 509584CF-6FB3-4D0E-943B-55DB4F1E5A11.png
    509584CF-6FB3-4D0E-943B-55DB4F1E5A11.png
    383.6 KB · Views: 129
  • 4D03DCC5-6B56-4F7D-AE24-5B6FD0133E44.jpeg
    4D03DCC5-6B56-4F7D-AE24-5B6FD0133E44.jpeg
    37.6 KB · Views: 130
  • 668BEAA5-D7A8-4F42-855F-09E328C11A82.jpeg
    668BEAA5-D7A8-4F42-855F-09E328C11A82.jpeg
    198.8 KB · Views: 130

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,528
One of those conditions is exiting the joint venture with Hitachi.



The link I used includes:
“Alstom also committed to a series of measures aimed at preserving the joint bid offered in consortium by Bombardier and Hitachi to HS2, the current largest opportunity for the production of very high-speed rolling stock in Europe;”
...which seems the opposite?
 

rebmcr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
3,854
Location
St Neots
The link I used includes:
“Alstom also committed to a series of measures aimed at preserving the joint bid offered in consortium by Bombardier and Hitachi to HS2, the current largest opportunity for the production of very high-speed rolling stock in Europe;”
...which seems the opposite?
I.e. preserving the bid despite Bombardier's divestment — so that Hitachi's now-solo effort does not cause a re-tender.
 

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,487
Location
Exeter
The obvious negative is that it looks grotesque, but those windows are nice and big!
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,900
Location
Epsom
I'm surprised it's not an articulated design given that the design speed is going to be in excess of anything else.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,773
Crikey, has someone actually managed to sell Hitachi on the benefits of plug doors?
All the Shinkansen that Hitachi have been involved wit, despite having enclosed bogies, fabric smoothing between carriages, elegantly sculpted noses etc still have pressure-sealed sliding doors
I'm surprised it's not an articulated design given that the design speed is going to be in excess of anything else.
Have Hitachi been involved in any shared bogie/articulated designs? At High Speed, seems to Alstom doing the conventional shared bogies, and Talgo doing their thing, whilst anyone else does fully bogie vehicles.
 

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,487
Location
Exeter
I'm surprised it's not an articulated design given that the design speed is going to be in excess of anything else.
To be fair, the Chinese 'Fuxing' trains which run at 220mph in service, and have traditional designs.

Have Hitachi been involved in any shared bogie/articulated designs? At High Speed, seems to Alstom doing the conventional shared bogies, and Talgo doing their thing, whilst anyone else does fully bogie vehicles.
Alstom also do up to 155mph in service with traditional designs (non-tilt Pendolino).
 

Energy

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2018
Messages
4,528
Have Hitachi been involved in any shared bogie/articulated designs? At High Speed, seems to Alstom doing the conventional shared bogies, and Talgo doing their thing, whilst anyone else does fully bogie vehicles.
Talgo isn't really a bogie, Alstom & Stadler use articulated, everyone else normal, the ICE trains have been running with normal bogies for decades.
 

WilloughbyGC

Member
Joined
18 Oct 2017
Messages
14
I.e. preserving the bid despite Bombardier's divestment — so that Hitachi's now-solo effort does not cause a re-tender.
No it means that Alstom takes over Bombardier’s share of the JV for HS2 if that JV bid is successful in winning the tender. The high speed remedy for the UK means that in future high speed tenders Hitachi has the option to license the product it has jointly developed with Bombardier to compete with the new Alstom (and others of course)
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,978
No it means that Alstom takes over Bombardier’s share of the JV for HS2 if that JV bid is successful in winning the tender. The high speed remedy for the UK means that in future high speed tenders Hitachi has the option to license the product it has jointly developed with Bombardier to compete with the new Alstom (and others of course)
How could Alstom have its own bid for the HS2 rolling stock (eg https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2019/6/alstom-unveils-proposed-hs2-train-design) as well as being in a joint venture with Hitachi? This is why it has had to divest the Bombardier-Hitachi development as part of its acquisition of Bombardier.

Alstom's bid
An iconic new design from the world speed record holders

5 June 2019 –
Alstom today unveils its proposed design for HS2 Ltd. The train is designed to meet all of HS2 Ltd’s requirements for a world class, modern and flexible train which is as comfortable on the conventional network as it is on the new HS2 infrastructure. Alstom has market-leading high-speed rail expertise, from iconic train designs such as the TGV in France, Avelia Liberty in the USA and AGV in Italy, combined with 20 years’ experience working with Pendolino trains on the UK’s West Coast Mainline.

By integrating HS2 infrastructure and the conventional network from Scotland all the way down to the south of England, HS2 will become the critical driving force in revitalising towns and cities all across the country, and especially in the midlands and the north.

“Alstom’s vision is to make HS2 trains a timeless design classic, with a passenger experience that is as smooth, calm and spacious as it is high speed. Alstom is excited to unveil this proposed train for HS2, which is the most important economic regeneration project in Britain for decades. It will knit together the great cities of the midlands and the north as never before, and turbo-charge our regional economies.” said Nick Crossfield, Managing Director for Alstom in UK and Ireland.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,423
The Bombardier - Hitachi HS2 submission is based on the existing Zefiro 300 for the Italian market aka Frecciarossa 1000, aka E.T.R. 400 or ETR 1000 that started off as joint venture between Bombardier and Ansaldo-Breda before Hitachi bought A-B. It also has to cope with similar classic compatible route issues - also recently chosen for Spanish HS stock.



I'm surprised it's not an articulated design given that the design speed is going to be in excess of anything else.
The tender precluded articulated designs, fairly standard UIC non France spec - e.g. 25.0m centre cars and no articulation.

How could Alstom have its own bid for the HS2 rolling stock (eg https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2019/6/alstom-unveils-proposed-hs2-train-design) as well as being in a joint venture with Hitachi?
Not really a problems as Alstom's own bid is very unlikely to get in the top 2 on technical scoring, hence it would need a near suicidal burning of their remaining cash pile from the heavy electrical asset sales to GE* (very well timed) to make an overall competitive bid. Hence they only have one competitive bid.

*Passing the toxic bad luck of the ex-CE units to yet another owner ABB had lucky escape, it bankrupted Alstom once and was probably going to do it again till GE bought the falling knife.
 
Last edited:

Wapps

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
107
Location
London
The Bombardier - Hitachi HS2 submission is based on the existing Zefiro 300 for the Italian market aka Frecciarossa 1000, aka E.T.R. 400 or ETR 1000 that started off as joint venture between Bombardier and Ansaldo-Breda before Hitachi bought A-B. It also has to cope with similar classic compatible route issues - also recently chosen for Spanish HS stock.




The tender precluded articulated designs, fairly standard UIC non France spec - e.g. 25.0m centre cars and no articulation.


Not really a problems as Alstom's own bid is very unlikely to get in the top 2 on technical scoring, hence it would need a near suicidal burning of their remaining cash pile from the heavy electrical asset sales to GE* (very well timed) to make an overall competitive bid. Hence they only have one competitive bid.

*Passing the toxic bad luck of the ex-CE units to yet another owner ABB had lucky escape, it bankrupted Alstom once and was probably going to do it again till GE bought the falling knife.
Who do you think is likely to be the top 2 then?
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,423
Who do you think is likely to be the top 2 then?
Siemens and Bombardier-Hitachi.

Both also happened to have designs that were very close to tender requirements including classic compatible equivalents in other countries already operating.

Worth noting that the 802 were made by Hitachi Rail Italy / A-B.
Same factory as used for the Zefiro 300 final assembly.

Towards the end A-B was buying everything for its own brand products apart from bodyshells and interiors from Bombardier.

Hitachi bought A-B for the signalling and the friction stir welding facility.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top