New lockdown in England, including school closures, announced by Johnson, 4/1/21

[bramling]

I was queueing in a well known coffee chain this morning when the gentleman in front started having a conversation with the salesperson about how he thought it was too early to lift lockdown. He started looking towards me for encouragement and support, at which point he got told straight that I don't agree with lockdowns and that they don't work anyway.

So the person in question wants lockdown, yet isn’t staying at home himself. Going out for coffee is hardly an essential activity.

Seems like more of the “I like lockdown when it applies to others” mentality.

 

[yorksrob]

So the person in question wants lockdown, yet isn’t staying at home himself. Going out for coffee is hardly an essential activity.

Seems like more of the “I like lockdown when it applies to others” mentality.

Indeed.

On another matter, I noticed just now that BBC news were broadcasting one of the extremists from Independant Sage, saying that vaccination "is not the whole answer to the problem" and "we still need a lot of restrictive measures to bring down cases and make sure that they stay down". Obviously there's no hint of an exit strategy, we're just expected to accept "restrictive measures" indefinately.

 

[DustyBin]

So the person in question wants lockdown, yet isn’t staying at home himself. Going out for coffee is hardly an essential activity.

Seems like more of the “I like lockdown when it applies to others” mentality.

Yes my thoughts exactly.

 

[bramling]

Indeed.

On another matter, I noticed just now that BBC news were broadcasting one of the extremists from Independant Sage, saying that vaccination "is not the whole answer to the problem" and "we still need a lot of restrictive measures to bring down cases and make sure that they stay down". Obviously there's no hint of an exit strategy, we're just expected to accept "restrictive measures" indefinately.

This is what annoys me when I see scenes like my town centre packed. One can bet that if there were to be a news crew there asking them if they support lockdown, many of them would say yes, and probably a good proportion of those advocating *more* lockdown measures.

They like the bits which are favourable to them (mainly not having to commute to work), are happy to forego the stuff that’s closed (remember many will have still managed a summer holiday last year), and ignore the rest.

No wonder so many of these sorts of people look like they’re in seventh heaven at the moment.

 

[duncanp]

Indeed.

On another matter, I noticed just now that BBC news were broadcasting one of the extremists from Independant Sage, saying that vaccination "is not the whole answer to the problem" and "we still need a lot of restrictive measures to bring down cases and make sure that they stay down". Obviously there's no hint of an exit strategy, we're just expected to accept "restrictive measures" indefinately.

What a load of cobblers.

Now that vaccination has been shown to reduce transmission as well as give protection against severe illness, as far as I am concerned it IS the whole answer to the problem, as it will "...bring down cases and make sure that they stay down.."

And in any case, if fewer people end up in hospital, the absolute number of cases doesn't matter so much.

Lockdown can only ever be a temporary solution to the problem whilst other measures are put in place.

I can't really say on this forum what I would like to say about these SAGE scientists.

 

[yorksrob]

I can't really say on this forum what I would like to say about these SAGE scientists.

These are the ones who are too extreme even for SAGE !

 

[Class 33]

I'm noticing as the weeks go on of this THIRD(!!!) lockdown, that steadily more and more people are not complying strictly with the rules. I'm seeing an increase of the number of people walking about. And over the past couple of weeks or so, I'm seeing more and more young people in groups of 3's, 4's, or even 5's walking about or hanging about, who appear to be groups of friends not from the same household. And I'm hearing people walking down my street late at night/early hours of the morning, along with cars driving down/parking up at similar hours. They're probably coming back from visiting friends. I'm also frequently hearing people knocking on doors of nearby houses, so they're probably visiting friends. So compliance with these lockdown rules is falling now. And not too surprising really, as we've been in this current lockdown now for 7 weeks, we've got all these millions of vaccinations happening, and cases, infection rates, deaths and hospital numbers are all falling week on week. Many people are getting fed up of these silly rules now.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

What a load of cobblers.

Now that vaccination has been shown to reduce transmission as well as give protection against severe illness, as far as I am concerned it IS the whole answer to the problem, as it will "...bring down cases and make sure that they stay down.."

And in any case, if fewer people end up in hospital, the absolute number of cases doesn't matter so much.

Lockdown can only ever be a temporary solution to the problem whilst other measures are put in place.

I can't really say on this forum what I would like to say about these SAGE scientists.

and even hancock told the media this morning that the SA variant isn't a big issue so with "cases down, admissions down, hospitalisations tumbling, mortality declining, mutations stunted" what will the scientists and medics have to use at tomorrows presser

 

[greyman42]

I'm noticing as the weeks go on of this THIRD(!!!) lockdown, that steadily more and more people are not complying strictly with the rules. I'm seeing an increase of the number of people walking about. And over the past couple of weeks or so, I'm seeing more and more young people in groups of 3's, 4's, or even 5's walking about or hanging about, who appear to be groups of friends not from the same household. And I'm hearing people walking down my street late at night/early hours of the morning, along with cars driving down/parking up at similar hours. They're probably coming back from visiting friends. I'm also frequently hearing people knocking on doors of nearby houses, so they're probably visiting friends. So compliance with these lockdown rules is falling now. And not too surprising really, as we've been in this current lockdown now for 7 weeks, we've got all these millions of vaccinations happening, and cases, infection rates, deaths and hospital numbers are all falling week on week. Many people are getting fed up of these silly rules now.

This is not uncommon and has been going on for the whole of lockdown and yet the government insist that lockdown compliance has been fantastic. Either they are out of touch with what is really going on or they are lying.

 

[duncanp]

what will the scientists and medics have to use at tomorrows presser

Nothing.

That is what they are all getting so worked up about.

No-one is going to listen/is listening to them any more.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

and even hancock told the media this morning that the SA variant isn't a big issue so with "cases down, admissions down, hospitalisations tumbling, mortality declining, mutations stunted" what will the scientists and medics have to use at tomorrows presser

I read that Hancock also said this morning that he wants to move away from legislative restrictions and move things into non-binding guidance so people can make decisions for themselves.

I hope he sticks to his word - not that it affects me in Crankie Land of course.

 

[DB]

I read that Hancock also said this morning that he wants to move away from legislative restrictions and move things into non-binding guidance so people can make decisions for themselves.

I hope he sticks to his word - not that it affects me in Crankie Land of course.

Don't believe it until it happens!

I hope we don't get into a situation where certain shops, train operators, etc, start demanding mask wearing even after it's ceased to be a legal requirment (whenever that is).

 

[Richard Scott]

Don't believe it until it happens!

I hope we don't get into a situation where certain shops, train operators, etc, start demanding mask wearing even after it's ceased to be a legal requirment (whenever that is).

If they do then won't shop there or use their trains. If sufficient do the same then they'll soon change their minds when money isn't coming in.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I read that Hancock also said this morning that he wants to move away from legislative restrictions and move things into non-binding guidance so people can make decisions for themselves.

I hope he sticks to his word - not that it affects me in Crankie Land of course.

Oh thats good to hear. I heard a Tfl ad on the radio earlier saying "you must only travel if you have a legal reason" so that better disappear pretty soon.

 

[brad465]

I read that Hancock also said this morning that he wants to move away from legislative restrictions and move things into non-binding guidance so people can make decisions for themselves.

I hope he sticks to his word - not that it affects me in Crankie Land of course.

I wonder if the latest news about his contract unlawfulness will mean easing restrictions as much as possible takes the heat off him on that specific issue. It was believed the reopening of shops went ahead as planned without much scrutiny back in June to try and reduce how much the Barnard Castle incident exposed a week earlier was being discussed.

 

[island]

Don't believe it until it happens!

I hope we don't get into a situation where certain shops, train operators, etc, start demanding mask wearing even after it's ceased to be a legal requirment (whenever that is).

It'll end pretty quickly for non-monopolies like pubs, cafés and shops once business walks out the door and down the road to a non-maskivist competitor.

It'll also end pretty quickly for monopolies like the railway because they don't have near enough staff to enforce it.

It will probably remain a while for the likes of Apple and Disney Store (who, you may recall, brought in mask requirements last June before they were mandated), and perhaps for small-town pharmacies and the like. Basically locations where there are limited alternatives. It will also probably remain a while for air travel where passengers can be refused boarding at the point of departure, and in the air they have the threat to have someone arrested on arrival – police in most countries will arrest more or less anyone on air-crew's say-so if they say the passenger was disruptive.

 

[brad465]

My favourite political vlogger was talking about Brexit travel and customs arrangements so far, where police from all forces across the country are being drafted into Kent on mutual aid to support the forces here. Perhaps this is in part why the lockdown isn't being enforced (which is surprisingly good I think).

 

[HSTEd]

Police forces aren't "enforcing" the lockdown because they simply don't have the personnel.

Hell during the Leicester local lockdown I calculated it would take ten percent of the entire strength of Leicestershire Constabulary just to maintain a cordon aroudn the locked down area.
Let alone any kind of enforcement within it, or any actual other police work.

 

[Bikeman78]

It'll end pretty quickly for non-monopolies like pubs, cafés and shops once business walks out the door and down the road to a non-maskivist competitor.

It'll also end pretty quickly for monopolies like the railway because they don't have near enough staff to enforce it.

It will probably remain a while for the likes of Apple and Disney Store (who, you may recall, brought in mask requirements last June before they were mandated), and perhaps for small-town pharmacies and the like. Basically locations where there are limited alternatives. It will also probably remain a while for air travel where passengers can be refused boarding at the point of departure, and in the air they have the threat to have someone arrested on arrival – police in most countries will arrest more or less anyone on air-crew's say-so if they say the passenger was disruptive.

I'd imagine they might prevail on long haul for longer. Once Ryanair ditches masks, Easyjet will most likely follow. I won't be flying long haul with a mask. I'd like to go to New York again but I won't put up with a mask for seven or eight hours.

 

[DorkingMain]

The railways have been entirely hands-off about enforcing mask wearing ever since June last year - at all stages staff have been told not to try and enforce it and let the BTP do so.

If it no longer becomes a legal requirement, there ceases to be a need for the BTP to enforce it. I very much doubt any TOC will be able to get their staff to manage it. Suspect the likely result will be "guidance" that gradually fizzles out when everyone realises they don't need to

 

[bramling]

The railways have been entirely hands-off about enforcing mask wearing ever since June last year - at all stages staff have been told not to try and enforce it and let the BTP do so.

If it no longer becomes a legal requirement, there ceases to be a need for the BTP to enforce it. I very much doubt any TOC will be able to get their staff to manage it. Suspect the likely result will be "guidance" that gradually fizzles out when everyone realises they don't need to

There’s one member of staff at a place I know who is a mask obsessive. He goes round challenging anyone who isn’t in a mask, as well as those not worn correctly to the point of saying to people “can you move your mask upwards a couple of centimetres please”. Surprisingly enough, in the next breath he will be moaning about how much trouble he is getting from passengers at the moment, which is quite an achievement when for most of the time there aren’t many of them. From what I’ve seen he gives anyone claiming to be exempt a lecture about how they should have a badge.

I keep meaning to flag this up, but have never got round to it thusfar.

 

[brad465]

The Covid alert level has dropped to Level 4:

UK Covid alert level drops as NHS threat 'recedes'

The move to the second-highest level means the NHS is no longer at imminent risk of being overwhelmed.

www.bbc.co.uk

The UK's coronavirus alert level has been lowered from level five to four in all four nations as the risk that the NHS could be overwhelmed "has receded".

The four UK chief medical officers and NHS England's national medical director agreed the change following advice from the Joint Biosecurity Centre.

The alert level had moved to level five on 4 January, shortly before England and Scotland began fresh lockdowns.

The top medics urged people to "remain vigilant" by following lockdown rules.

A change in alert system does not automatically mean restrictions can ease, but it helps to inform government decisions on lockdown rules.

England's Prof Chris Whitty, Northern Ireland's Dr Michael McBride, Scotland's Dr Gregor Smith, Wales's Dr Frank Atherton and NHS England's Prof Stephen Powis said their decision was made because the number of cases in hospital was "consistently declining".

However, they warned: "We should be under no illusions - transmission rates, hospital pressures and deaths are still very high."

They said the vaccine rollout would eventually have "a major impact" but for the time being "it is really important that we all - vaccinated or not - remain vigilant and continue to follow the guidelines".

A progression of the vaccine rollout and its effects should see this drop further, however I do think the description of level 1 needs to go, which currently refers to Covid no longer being in the UK, which frankly isn't going to happen.

 

[yorkie]

The Covid alert level has dropped to Level 4:

UK Covid alert level drops as NHS threat 'recedes'

The move to the second-highest level means the NHS is no longer at imminent risk of being overwhelmed.

www.bbc.co.uk

A progression of the vaccine rollout and its effects should see this drop further, however I do think the description of level 1 needs to go, which currently refers to Covid no longer being in the UK, which frankly isn't going to happen.

Agreed; it should be renamed to "no longer a threat" or something

The coronavirus is here to stay — here’s what that means

A Nature survey shows many scientists expect the virus that causes COVID-19 to become endemic, but it could pose less danger over time.

www.nature.com

In January, Nature asked more than 100 immunologists, infectious-disease researchers and virologists working on the coronavirus whether it could be eradicated. Almost 90% of respondents think that the coronavirus will become endemic — meaning that it will continue to circulate in pockets of the global population for years to come (see 'Endemic future').

It's likely to become the 5th seasonal Coronavirus, though this is not guaranteed.

 

[Cowley]

OK good people.
Seeing as we’re (hopefully) moving towards the lifting of restrictions, this thread has run its course for now and it makes more sense to move further discussion into this thread:

22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

With one week to go, what are your hopes, worries and predictions surrounding next week’s roadmap out of the pandemic? When do you think different restrictions are likely to be lifted and what do you think is the correct pace towards normality? Personally, I’m feeling optimistic. I’m confident...

www.railforums.co.uk

As always, thanks everyone for your contributions.