New lockdown in England, including school closures, announced by Johnson, 4/1/21

[tommy2215]

Today we had 37,892 cases, a decrease of 11k from last Thursday. 363,508 more people were vaccinated (highest daily number yet) and the number of people in hospital appears to have started falling too. Inevitable that deaths will follow. If these trends continue then the Government have no case for not relaxing restrictions in March.

 

[Class 33]

Today we had 37,892 cases, a decrease of 11k from last Thursday. 363,508 more people were vaccinated (highest daily number yet) and the number of people in hospital appears to have started falling too. Inevitable that deaths will follow. If these trends continue then the Government have no case for not relaxing restrictions in March.

Yes the deaths and hospital numbers will soon start to tumble week on week. I just can't wait. It just can't come soon enough. Then the government and others won't be able to keep banging on about pressures on the NHS, hospitals are overloaded, etc. Then they'll have no justificiation atall for introducing "tougher measures" or keeping the lockdown going. They'll have to start easing it, along with these ridiculous social distancing and face mask wearing measures which are hugely damaging to the economy and million's of people. Once the tide goes the other way on all these healthcare and deaths stats, they'll have to start getting this country on the road back to normality.

 

[221129]

The simple act of making it illegal to visit ones family does not damage the economy directly.

Again, yes it does.

 

[6862]

Again, yes it does.

I don't disagree that it ultimately does damage the economy, but I fail to see how it does so directly? I can see the knock on effects which would damage the economy, but the government are incapable of thinking about long term effects or indirect consequences, which was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Kite159]

There were people in North Wales being criticised for driving to look at the floods in contravention of COVID Rules but Boris has travelled from London to Manchester to see the floods. What is the difference ? The "Scarecrow" was out and about yesterday also as though he has itchy feet and is unable to abide by his own Rules

And 10p had he not gone to Manchester for the floods, some of the media will be shouting that "Boris doesn't care about the North". So he was in a no-win situation.

 

[Richard Scott]

Study just come out that the effect of the vaccine is vastly reduced against the South African variant. Perfect reason to keep everything closed.

Evidence please from more than one source?

 

[philjo]

Evidence please from more than one source?

Report in Nature.

Fast-spreading COVID variant can elude immune responses

Evidence that a variant of the coronavirus identified in South Africa might compromise immunity sparks concerns about vaccine effectiveness.

www.nature.com

 

[HSTEd]

Evidence please from more than one source?

It doesn't matter if it is true.

It matters what the government and media can convince the public of.
Hence the endless fearmongering based on a flawed Israeli study they won't even release the data for.

 

[Richard Scott]

Report in Nature.

Fast-spreading COVID variant can elude immune responses

Evidence that a variant of the coronavirus identified in South Africa might compromise immunity sparks concerns about vaccine effectiveness.

www.nature.com

Says 'might' in first sentence so that's not evidence.

 

[HLE]

A thought did occur to me earlier, it could have been worse than Priti standing there dishing out the latest propaganda......if the election had gone the other way it'd have been Diane Abbott stood there!

 

[birchesgreen]

A thought did occur to me earlier, it could have been worse than Priti standing there dishing out the latest propaganda......if the election had gone the other way it'd have been Diane Abbott stood there!

It would not be worse. Abbott might mess things up due to incompetence (though that is overstated), Patel messes things thing due to unpleasant ideology.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Hospital numbers are still rising, but only by about 30 per day.
Given something like 4000 admissions are occuring each day, I think the peak will be reached soon.

Actually new data today for England has shown cases dropping over the last two days which is a real positive lets hope trend continues so govt have pressure from real data as well as those like CRG.

If our leaders were rational thinkers or remotely sane they would take this approach. But we are ruled by dictatorial maniacs, and they won't avoid a chance to keep us locked away for as long as possible. They don't care about the economic or mental effects of their measures. So even though the cure is definitely worse than the illness, they will continue it. I too suspect that we will not leave lockdown until May at the earliest and I suspect the tier restrictions are here to stay for another year at least. Yes there will be nothing left, but remember that nothing matters except Covid.

Well at least you can say the Tories now have a heart

 

[Philip]

Johnson's comments today about it being too early to say if lockdown will be lifted in Spring, and that "we'll see how we're doing at the 15th Feb review" I think confirms that nothing has changed regarding the criteria since he announced the lockdown on the 4th. I take this as positive, as some in the media have been spinning stories recently about the goalposts shifting and painting a bleaker outlook.

If things are going as well as realistically hoped come this review, the 'if' having to be stressed, then I'm going for schools reopening on 1st March (government today said schools will be given 2 weeks notice following announcement of reopening) and a return to the tier system on 8th March. It'll be tiers 3 or 4 everywhere to start with, the decision on either tier 3 or 4 for an area depending on how well it is doing. By the 8th March we'll have hopefully passed the 20 million mark for first dose vaccinations, which should start making a big difference for hospitals, that'll be the hope.

Wouldn't surprise me if things then stay as they are for another 4 weeks which will take us up to the Easter weekend, with a review the week before. At this point I think they'll then look to start placing areas back into tier 2 and the reopening of hospitality (possibly using the original tier 2 and not having this substantial meal rule), again subject to how well things are going.

 

[Tezza1978]

Johnson's comments today about it being too early to say if lockdown will be lifted in Spring, and that "we'll see how we're doing at the 15th Feb review" I think confirms that nothing has changed regarding the criteria since he announced the lockdown on the 4th. I take this as positive, as some in the media have been spinning stories recently about the goalposts shifting and painting a bleaker outlook.

If things are going as well as realistically hoped come this review, the 'if' having to be stressed, then I'm going for schools reopening on 1st March (government today said schools will be given 2 weeks notice following announcement of reopening) and a return to the tier system on 8th March. It'll be tiers 3 or 4 everywhere to start with, the decision on either tier 3 or 4 for an area depending on how well it is doing. By the 8th March we'll have hopefully passed the 20 million mark for first dose vaccinations, which should start making a big difference for hospitals, that'll be the hope.

Wouldn't surprise me if things then stay as they are for another 4 weeks which will take us up to the Easter weekend, with a review the week before. At this point I think they'll then look to start placing areas back into tier 2 and the reopening of hospitality (possibly using the original tier 2 and not having this substantial meal rule), again subject to how well things are going.

This would be a realistic and sensible approach and quite likely to happen. No doubt the zero COVID fanatics would scream blue murder though and fill the airwaves again that Boris is killing people

 

[takno]

A thought did occur to me earlier, it could have been worse than Priti standing there dishing out the latest propaganda......if the election had gone the other way it'd have been Diane Abbott stood there!

I don't agree that that would have been worse. Diane Abbot may be a long way past her prime, but Patel is both vicious and viciously stupid. It's all moot anyway since the Tories did win this particular poisoned chalice, and Diane Abbot is a long way from frontline politics

 

[johnnychips]

From someone who worked in education in an (ex)-mining community for thirty-six years, to wish Mrs Thatcher were in charge, is quite a statement!

 

[PHILIPE]

And 10p had he not gone to Manchester for the floods, some of the media will be shouting that "Boris doesn't care about the North". So he was in a no-win situation.

As Boris keeps telling people he could work from home.

 

[Kite159]

As Boris keeps telling people he could work from home.

Wouldn't stop the likes of Burnham popping up for a cheap potshot "once more it shows he doesn't care about the North".

Although anybody visiting flooding areas is a waste of time as it diverts resources away from the feet on the ground trying to put things right.

 

[initiation]

From someone who worked in education in an (ex)-mining community for thirty-six years, to wish Mrs Thatcher were in charge, is quite a statement!

God. We can only dream what might have been. Being a scientist herself she wouldn't have accepted such bull from the Sage lot.

 

[farleigh]

From someone who worked in education in an (ex)-mining community for thirty-six years, to wish Mrs Thatcher were in charge, is quite a statement!

Yeah - she should have kept all of the mines open.

 

[Class 33]

Johnson's comments today about it being too early to say if lockdown will be lifted in Spring, and that "we'll see how we're doing at the 15th Feb review" I think confirms that nothing has changed regarding the criteria since he announced the lockdown on the 4th. I take this as positive, as some in the media have been spinning stories recently about the goalposts shifting and painting a bleaker outlook.

If things are going as well as realistically hoped come this review, the 'if' having to be stressed, then I'm going for schools reopening on 1st March (government today said schools will be given 2 weeks notice following announcement of reopening) and a return to the tier system on 8th March. It'll be tiers 3 or 4 everywhere to start with, the decision on either tier 3 or 4 for an area depending on how well it is doing. By the 8th March we'll have hopefully passed the 20 million mark for first dose vaccinations, which should start making a big difference for hospitals, that'll be the hope.

Wouldn't surprise me if things then stay as they are for another 4 weeks which will take us up to the Easter weekend, with a review the week before. At this point I think they'll then look to start placing areas back into tier 2 and the reopening of hospitality (possibly using the original tier 2 and not having this substantial meal rule), again subject to how well things are going.

I agree some of the press and media are spinning on this and painting a bleaker outlook suggesting lockdown could well last until at least April or even into the summer. It's disgusting how the press and media do these sort of antics.

You could be right about the tiered system from 8th March. Though I reacon some regions of the country the stats could have well fallen quite a bit by then, and some should really be in Tier 2 not Tiers 3 or 4.

Also by April, things should be massively better with the nationwide healthcare and deaths stats. If so, then the Tiered system really needs to be finally scrapped. And all the remaining restrictions in particular social distancing and face mask wearing laws/guidelines really needs to be scrapped as soon as possible after, so that we can start getting this country back to normal after what would have been over 13 months of severe disruption and inconvenience for much of the population.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I agree some of the press and media are spinning on this and painting a bleaker outlook suggesting lockdown could well last until at least April or even into the summer. It's disgusting how the press and media do these sort of antics.

The problem at the moment is journalists are being even lazier than usual (apparently that's possible) and are using the term lockdown when they mean some restrictions. It is obvious from reading some of the articles with the most sensational headlines when they are saying lockdown could last until May or the summer they don't mean the current situation but there will still be some COVID restrictions in place. There will be some restrictions in place then, we'll just have to wait and see which ones.

 

[brad465]

Several front pages are reporting apparent plans to give everybody who tests positive a one-off payment of £500 to self isolate in the hope of slowing spread and getting more people with symptoms to get tested.

My current thinking is I'd welcome this policy if it meant lifting a number of restrictions that make the whole strategy more sustainable, though I doubt they will lift anything in conjunction if this policy is announced.

 

[SoccerHQ]

The problem at the moment is journalists are being even lazier than usual (apparently that's possible) and are using the term lockdown when they mean some restrictions. It is obvious from reading some of the articles with the most sensational headlines when they are saying lockdown could last until May or the summer they don't mean the current situation but there will still be some COVID restrictions in place. There will be some restrictions in place then, we'll just have to wait and see which ones.

Talk Sage are pushing for Hospitality not to open until early May.

I think it will be early April when things are significantly eased.

 

[Tomp94]

Johnson's comments today about it being too early to say if lockdown will be lifted in Spring, and that "we'll see how we're doing at the 15th Feb review" I think confirms that nothing has changed regarding the criteria since he announced the lockdown on the 4th. I take this as positive, as some in the media have been spinning stories recently about the goalposts shifting and painting a bleaker outlook.

If things are going as well as realistically hoped come this review, the 'if' having to be stressed, then I'm going for schools reopening on 1st March (government today said schools will be given 2 weeks notice following announcement of reopening) and a return to the tier system on 8th March. It'll be tiers 3 or 4 everywhere to start with, the decision on either tier 3 or 4 for an area depending on how well it is doing. By the 8th March we'll have hopefully passed the 20 million mark for first dose vaccinations, which should start making a big difference for hospitals, that'll be the hope.

Wouldn't surprise me if things then stay as they are for another 4 weeks which will take us up to the Easter weekend, with a review the week before. At this point I think they'll then look to start placing areas back into tier 2 and the reopening of hospitality (possibly using the original tier 2 and not having this substantial meal rule), again subject to how well things are going.

thing is, is that hospitality can’t operate properly in tiers 2 or 3, as these tiers have no indoor mixing of households in them.
We must be able to meet friends and family indoors at easter at the very latest

 

[bramling]

I agree some of the press and media are spinning on this and painting a bleaker outlook suggesting lockdown could well last until at least April or even into the summer. It's disgusting how the press and media do these sort of antics.

You could be right about the tiered system from 8th March. Though I reacon some regions of the country the stats could have well fallen quite a bit by then, and some should really be in Tier 2 not Tiers 3 or 4.

Also by April, things should be massively better with the nationwide healthcare and deaths stats. If so, then the Tiered system really needs to be finally scrapped. And all the remaining restrictions in particular social distancing and face mask wearing laws/guidelines really needs to be scrapped as soon as possible after, so that we can start getting this country back to normal after what would have been over 13 months of severe disruption and inconvenience for much of the population.

It does seem the media are painting things in the worst possible light. Sky News this evening was - once again - hurrendous.

Several front pages are reporting apparent plans to give everybody who tests positive a one-off payment of £500 to self isolate in the hope of slowing spread and getting more people with symptoms to get tested.

My current thinking is I'd welcome this policy if it meant lifting a number of restrictions that make the whole strategy more sustainable, though I doubt they will lift anything in conjunction if this policy is announced.

What would stop someone pocketing the £500 and not fulfilling the self-isolation?

 

[Yew]

I would tend to agree.

If people can't see any end in sight, and come to believe that they won't have a summer holiday with friends, and won't be able to meet friends or family for months on end, and won't, as Hancock said "be spending all summer doing the things we enjoy" then they will see little point in putting the effort in now and will start to disregard them more.

I've said it before, and probably will say it again, for many parts of the country including where I live, it has technically been illegal to meet indoors with any other person from outside your household for 6 months already, another 4 or 5 months of being on my own and not being able to meet anyone else for any form of social interaction at all is too much and many people will (if they are not already) just start to ignore it.

I almost wish for more ridiculous restrictions, so that more people see this for the farcical, anti-scientific mess that it is.

What would stop someone pocketing the £500 and not fulfilling the self-isolation?

Who cares about effectiveness when Boris Johnson's ego is on the line?

 

[Mag_seven]

What would stop someone pocketing the £500 and not fulfilling the self-isolation?

Spending the 14 days (and the £500) down the pub (if open of course).

 

[brad465]

What would stop someone pocketing the £500 and not fulfilling the self-isolation?

Forfeiting it if they're found to not be isolating might, albeit it'll be very difficult to enforce like everything else.

Regardless of how effective this policy is, it highlights why SSP should be higher than it is: being able to self isolate with job and financial security would lead to higher self isolation compliance and if this got infection numbers down meant less other restrictions were possible.

 

[bramling]

Forfeiting it if they're found to not be isolating might, albeit it'll be very difficult to enforce like everything else.

Regardless of how effective this policy is, it highlights why SSP should be higher than it is: being able to self isolate with job and financial security would lead to higher self isolation compliance and if this got infection numbers down meant less other restrictions were possible.

Yes I think the sick pay system is more the issue than anything else, though sorting that is something they can’t really do quickly as an emergency measure, though I suspect patchy self-isolation has almost certainly been an issue from the start of this, and in some cases it will be due to boredom.