New Logo for Northern Trains LTD

[omnicity4659]

How odd. Certainly the first time I've seen such adverts on a TOC website!

 

[221101 Voyager]

How odd. Certainly the first time I've seen such adverts on a TOC website!

Same here, I suppose they use ad's to help fund hosting the site perhaps?

Also the new logo is horrendous and is a waste of money!
I could've made a better one with my eyes shut!

How about this, done this in 5 minutes!

 

[omnicity4659]

Same here, I suppose they use ad's to help fund hosting the site perhaps?

Also the new logo is horrendous and is a waste of money!
I could've made a better one with my eyes shut!

The money spent on the seemingly pointless rebrand could have been spent on keeping the website ad-free!

 

[bengley]

Also seems that the Northern website has gained newspaper clutter style advertising!


View attachment 84669

Not if you use adblock plus

 

[221101 Voyager]

The money spent on the seemingly pointless rebrand could have been spent on keeping the website ad-free!

Not if you use adblock plus

Absolutely right on both points!

How come they changed the word 'NORTHERN' to capitals yet the n is still the same?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How much did they spend on it, or did one of the staff just knock it up in Word?

 

[221101 Voyager]

How much did they spend on it, or did one of the staff just knock it up in Word?

They spent 80p on it, instead of buying a Yorkie for the designer he said no, I'm on a diet so spend it on your new logo instead!

I reckon thats what they did and to save money on special software, word was used!

Bletchleyite did you see above my quick design for a new Northern logo? It's better than what they have now!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Northern say they spent 30 grand on the new logo, I assume most of it went towards getting the license for the font from Volkswagen.

 

[HarryL]

The font is VAG Rounded in the light weight, so they'd only buy a licence for one weight and for their requirements, I don't really see it costing £30k for that though, a couple grand at most. They could have just as easily drawn a custom logo-type like the previous Arriva logo did, would look a damn sight better, less squashed and cost nothing in licences.

Their website uses Gotham rounded, I'd have preferred them to have used that for the logo too, or I think the font they use in social media posts could have also been better than VAG.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The font is VAG Rounded in the light weight, so they'd only buy a licence for one weight and for their requirements, I don't really see it costing £30k for that though, a couple grand at most. They could have just as easily drawn a custom logo-type like the previous Arriva logo did, would look a damn sight better, less squashed and cost nothing in licences.

Their website uses Gotham rounded, I'd have preferred them to have used that for the logo too, or I think the font they use in social media posts could have also been better than VAG.

Could be worse, could be something very similar to Comic Sans as Merseytravel try to use for their logotype with a straight face!

 

[tpjm]

Also seems that the Northern website has gained newspaper clutter style advertising!


View attachment 84669

That’s been there for a while, certainly 3-4 weeks. I thought it was quite odd.

 

[Evolution]

Also seems that the Northern website has gained newspaper clutter style advertising!


View attachment 84669

Nowhere near as bad as newspaper sites, where their site is pretty much unusable until all the ads stop loading.

Fair play to Northern for being pragmatic and utilising their high web traffic to make money and put some money back into the pot at a difficult time.

It doesn’t affect the user experience so I see no problem with it personally.

 

[py_megapixel]

How about this, done this in 5 minutes!
View attachment 84677

Honestly it's a bit generic in my opinion... but for something done in a few minutes, it's certainly a pretty reasonable and far preferable to what Northern have at the moment .

 

[221101 Voyager]

Honestly it's a bit generic in my opinion... but for something done in a few minutes, it's certainly a pretty reasonable and far preferable to what Northern have at the moment .

Thanks! I can maybe make a better one and send it to you at some point.

 

[Andyh82]

The logo now looks even more like an unhappy face, now it’s completely different to the Northern wording

 

[BurtonM]

Nobody seems to have realised that completely rebranding Northern under DOR could actually generate better PR... everyone asks, no we'll keep the tainted logo thanks, then they change it and make it worse!
That's absolutely dire. 30k my bottom, that's the government paying its mates off again I bet.

 

[yorkie]

Also seems that the Northern website has gained newspaper clutter style advertising!


View attachment 84669

Looks very unprofessional.

We would never have that much advertising cluttering this forum!

Nobody seems to have realised that completely rebranding Northern under DOR could actually generate better PR... everyone asks, no we'll keep the tainted logo thanks, then they change it and make it worse!
That's absolutely dire. 30k my bottom...

Agreed.

Almost anyone could have done better, and for a lot less money.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Considering that changing a logo or brand for a company will usually need multiple sign off likely from an internal commitee of some kind for the final product after considering various incarnations (you would hope) , it's odd to think this lash up was the best of a bunch.

 

[py_megapixel]

Looks very unprofessional.

We would never have that much advertising cluttering this forum!

Indeed.

It also runs the risk that their direct competitors are advertised in that space without them knowing...

*****

There's also the interesting point that what is supposed to be an internal logo only has been gradually creeping onto public materials... I wonder if they will end up wasting even more money adding new vinyls to the trains as well!

 

[bengley]

Indeed.

It also runs the risk that their direct competitors are advertised in that space without them knowing...

*****

There's also the interesting point that what is supposed to be an internal logo only has been gradually creeping onto public materials... I wonder if they will end up wasting even more money adding new vinyls to the trains as well!

I suspect so. I've spotted two newly repainted 150s today in Manchester with the 'n' applied but with no northern next to it, so I suspect they're waiting for new logo vinyls

 

[XAM2175]

Considering that changing a logo or brand for a company will usually need multiple sign off likely from an internal commitee of some kind for the final product after considering various incarnations (you would hope) , it's odd to think this lash up was the best of a bunch.

On the contrary - it's exactly why "design by committee" is a recognized trope:

The term is used to refer to suboptimal traits that such a process may produce as a result of having to compromise between the requirements and viewpoints of the participants...

 

[HarryL]

I would suspect the logo was always intended to be public and they've done it now as they're now at the phase of distancing themselves from Arriva, the last time I travelled Northern a month or so ago there were still tons of By Arriva tags on staff uniforms, station signage, posters, etc. So they didn't attempt to take much ownership of it and allowed it to remain short term.

Had Arriva not started tagging everything in 2017 I imagine the logo would have been salvageable but now it has too much of an association. Certainly doesn't excuse the poor half-rebrand though.

 

[ARIC]

I would suspect the logo was always intended to be public and they've done it now as they're now at the phase of distancing themselves from Arriva

The issue in my eyes is it doesn't achieve that goal - the typeface used for the wording is far less connected to the Arriva period than the "frowning face" - and the "by Arriva" strapline always blended in to the background.

Front and centre in the minds of people to whom you'd like to assure that the Arriva era has gone, is the one part of the logo being retained. It's a massive misstep. The unhappy face = Northern Fail. The first opportunity to be rid of it should have been taken.

Add to this that the replacement elements that are new are very low quality, I'm not sure what they are thinking.

 

[60074]

Noted yesterday that 156479 is now carrying the new font/branding.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Same here, I suppose they use ad's to help fund hosting the site perhaps?

Also the new logo is horrendous and is a waste of money!
I could've made a better one with my eyes shut!

How about this, done this in 5 minutes!
View attachment 84677

Or this, which didn't take much longer:

I did spend a fair bit of time trying to Photoshop it onto a 195, but my use of the vanishing point tool left a lot to be desired so I decided not to post it.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Or this, which didn't take much longer:
View attachment 85237
I did spend a fair bit of time trying to Photoshop it onto a 195, but my use of the vanishing point tool left a lot to be desired so I decided not to post it.

If I'm honest it looks quite 90s to me.

 

[Efini92]

I would suspect the logo was always intended to be public and they've done it now as they're now at the phase of distancing themselves from Arriva, the last time I travelled Northern a month or so ago there were still tons of By Arriva tags on staff uniforms, station signage, posters, etc. So they didn't attempt to take much ownership of it and allowed it to remain short term.

Had Arriva not started tagging everything in 2017 I imagine the logo would have been salvageable but now it has too much of an association. Certainly doesn't excuse the poor half-rebrand though.

I think the problem was Arriva owned the rights to the logo.
The by Arriva branding was a stupid idea, but fortunately they skimped out so much when it came to buying the uniform most of the by Arriva has fallen off.

 

[mde]

I think the problem was Arriva owned the rights to the logo.

They don't.

The trademarks on the "(n) northern" logo, the "n" device, and the "northern" logotype text were transferred from Arriva UK Trains Ltd to Northern Trains Ltd (the DfT company) on 1 March 2020.

For example, the logo (trademark UK00003143920) shows the following history on the Intellectual Property Office website:

List of events
Date28 April 2020TypeRecordal registration. Recordal type: Full assignmentTextFull Assignment RC000151560 received on date 23/03/2020 has been recorded, resulting to the change of ownership from Arriva UK Trains Limited (id: 434475, company number: 3166214, country: GB) to Northern Trains Limited (id: 1369911, company number: 03076444, country: GB). The effective date of assignment is 01/03/2020.

Search for a trade mark - Intellectual Property Office

trademarks.ipo.gov.uk

The "by arriva" tagline is, of course, another matter altogether. Fine on a piece of vinyl, but quite wasteful on some other items where it could be assumed that a reasonable lifespan might be expected (e.g. uniforms).

 

[Efini92]

They don't.

The trademarks on the "(n) northern" logo, the "n" device, and the "northern" logotype text were transferred from Arriva UK Trains Ltd to Northern Trains Ltd (the DfT company) on 1 March 2020.

For example, the logo (trademark UK00003143920) shows the following history on the Intellectual Property Office website:


The "by arriva" tagline is, of course, another matter altogether. Fine on a piece of vinyl, but quite wasteful on some other items where it could be assumed that a reasonable lifespan might be expected (e.g. uniforms).

I stand corrected, I’m sure they put a brief out saying they did. Must have been something else.

 

[Energy]

I would keep the Northern brand but without Arriva for now, not much has changed so wait until something actually changes before introducing a new brand.