New London Overground timetable

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Harlesden, 14 Nov 2011.

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  1. Harlesden

    Harlesden Member

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    The new timetable runs for a full year, but there is still no improvement in the NLL Sunday service.
    First train eastbound from Willesden Junction at 09:00 and first train westbound from Stratford at 09:15.
    If they don't think an earlier start is worthwhile, surely they could provide a half hourly bus service from 7AM for people that actually need to travel early.
     
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  3. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Aww, people in London complaining about having trains that start at 0900 on a Sunday? Outrageous! :roll:

    At least you get a good service thereafter on Sunday, try doing Stoke-Manchester direct before 1030 up here, or only having six trains over the course of a day to the local town.

    Don't forget that the LUL and buses run way before 0900!
     
  4. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    1030? :shock:

    Leicester - Birmingham is not until 1119. At least London gets a 24-hour bus operation.
     
  5. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Only 40 miles apart too (in both cases). The first SOT to MAN train is also the first train of the day ex-Euston, departing from Stoke at 1021 and arriving into Manchester at 1104.
     
  6. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Ignoring the off topic posts - I agree the new timetable has some improvements but still could do more.

    I think they've inherited via TUPE a lot of the Silverlink drivers who were quite Sunday-averse. :D

    I find the evening NLL frequencies pathetic as well. They just plummet at a certain time, even though passenger numbers don't!
     
  7. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Off-topic? I beg to disagree. The examples given shows how good a service level London receives while the rest of the country has to contend with far worse conditions.
     
  8. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    The 0900 Sunday start is so that NR can maintain the line. 8 hours Sunday morning and 5 hours Monday morning are the only opportunities all week, as the line is open all night in the week for freight.
     
  9. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Beg away. But you're wrong.

    The OP sets the topic - and it wasn't timetables and frequency disparities between North and South.

    You're welcome to start such a topic, and it would have its merits. But this one is about the new LOROL timetable, and as such the other interventions are O/T.

    Everything is relative. A four minute gap on the Victoria line is a disaster, for example.

    Just because X is bad, and Y may be worse, it doesn't mean a conversation can't be had about X.
     
  10. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    In all fairness though London is by far and away the biggest conurbation in the UK and therefore deserves a better service level than anywhere else.
     
  11. thewolf

    thewolf Member

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    I think the first Derby-Crewe on a Sunday isn't til about 2pm or something stupid like that :|
     
  12. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    first lincoln-nottingham on a sunday is 1500
     
  13. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    True.

    But don't expect anyone from outside the area to sympathise with you for "only" having "X"...
     
  14. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    Yes but everything is relative. For instance I'm sure you would agree that London is a heck of a lot bigger than Sheffield and therefore requires better public transport. Having said that I recognise that the road network in Sheffield in shocking, especially on the south side.

    I've often wondered why the Tram network in Sheffield wasn't extended? I went to Uni in sheffield (many years ago!) and always thought that the route out to Dore would have benefited from having the Tram?
     
  15. martinsh

    martinsh Established Member

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    Yes, London is a heck of a lot bigger than Sheffield, but that doesn't mean it requires better puiblic transport !<(
     
  16. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    No one said it was, however that does not mean others are not allowed to use examples to illustrate how good a system that is already in place.

    No one said you couldn't.

    Of course it deserves a better system, and it has a far better system in place.

    I sympathise with the OP in that there is a travelling need and it is not met. A bus route shadowing the NLL is probably going to be more appropriate and realistic in that NR is unlikely to allow trains to run that early as maintenance work tend to be carried out at that time on a Sunday.

    However the route not being there isn't such a massive deal, in my opinion. There are buses around the clock and the underground that starts running fairly early so will, despite taking longer, get passengers where they want to be. There are alternatives in London, unlike the rest of the country.
     
  17. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    I agree that London needs more trains/ longer trains than Sheffield. I have no problem with that.

    But when some parts of the UK (with no alternative buses) don't start Sunday service until lunchtime, its hard to feel sorry for London (with its 24/hr buses) having to wait until nine on a Sunday morning for a train.

    There were plans to run trams from Dore to Hellaby (the far side of Rotherham, by the M18), but the original "network" was never extended (unlike Manchester, with Nottingham getting an extension in the future). Then again, some cities (Leeds etc) have no tram, so I can't complain.
     
  18. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    Clearly you've never visited London or else your opinion would be very different!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    In all fairness the night buses do take some very circuitous routes but I would concur that we should be perhaps grateful for what we have. However, in terms of the NLL there is no real Tube substitute, many people in London don't have a car and I can see where the OP is coming from.

    I know this is way off topic but why was the tram network never extended?
     
  19. shinkansen1966

    shinkansen1966 Established Member

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    As opposed to say Manchester which deserves a dysfunctional uncoordinated collection of 20 different bus companies.
     
  20. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    Yes but that is not the fault of London or the SE! In my opinion Nottingham's bus network is very well run (as is London's) and perhaps Manchester could learn some lessons from those two?
     
  21. shinkansen1966

    shinkansen1966 Established Member

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    Yes, like giving the local council the same powers as in London to set fares, routes and timetables. Central, unified provision of bus services, with contracts to private operators on a gross tendering basis.
     
  22. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    That would be wonderful!
     
  23. 313103

    313103 On Moderation

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    Not True!
    Also all services on the NLL operate whether you like it or not with Guards!

    In fact since Lorol took over running services on Sundays i have gone from working 1 in 3.5 Sundays to 1 in 2. That means i now work 26 of the possible 52 sundays there is in a calender year. And you want me to work more? We now have the same amount of diagrams for a Sunday as we do for a Saturday.
     
  24. cle

    cle Established Member

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    I agree it's not ideal, but then again, railways aren't a 5 day a week industry, sorry.

    No matter the issues elsewhere in the country, we should be able to discuss London matters and perceived failings without being jumped on by everyone else with an axe to grind. Please take it elsewhere and let us discuss LO here.


    The Dec timetable had the following changes made:
    Largely favouring the WLL and then some through the core. Nothing on the Richmond branch, which is now a poor relation I would say. Gunnersbury is always rammed.

    I think that as it links now both Westfields, and running up to the Olympics, LO will get even more exposure. The 378s are excellent - brighter and safer and the whole line feels more like a metro.
     
  25. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    They do feel safe, which is amazing given what ran on there before (where I was always uncomfortable).

    They seem to be looked after and respected by the local community too.
     
  26. t0ffeeman

    t0ffeeman Member

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    All the WLL and NLL improvements are previously ECS runs which are now in service. So the only extra cost is the guard.
     
  27. cle

    cle Established Member

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    That's not a problem. Any new services are welcome!

    There are probably loads of CES moves across the country which could be opened up for a small staffing cost - pathing/signals etc... are already covered generally, as long as the stops don't mess the pathing up too much.
     
  28. thewolf

    thewolf Member

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    One spin-off from that competition is that it only costs 80 pence for a single!

    It's just short of £2 in Stoke or Birmingham where its pretty much just one company.
     
  29. 313103

    313103 On Moderation

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    The ECS's from Stratford are padded diagrams for Conductors, as they travel PASS to Willesden anyway. We have had as a result of the changes only one extra diagram Mon-Fri and that is the GOB one that is currently run using a spare Guard or the cover turn.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    So how many Sundays would you like me to work a year 30, 35, 40 or 52? No one said it wasn't a 5 day a week industry (although those commuters that travel on a Mon to Fri actually think it is but that's another story). Sundays has become problematical in covering because it was the day used to change peoples shift pattens around ie finishing at say 00.50 on a Sunday morning to starting 05.00 on a Monday morning. Now you have long periods stuck on the same shift (i am currently in a period where i do essentially 5 weeks of late turns before i go onto a early turn and that is because i have to work 2 late turn Sundays in that period).

    The one thing i do like is that all those that say we must work more and more Sundays and at flat rate i hasten to add, or those that dont work on that day!
     
  30. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Politics.

    Labour (nationally) were very risk-averse at letting cities building/extending tram networks.

    There are clear areas where the Sheffield system could be extended, but the fact that the system had some design flaws (Herdings Park/ Malin Bridge branches) and some "bad luck" (high density housing areas that the tram was designed to run past were knocked down (Norfolk Park, Kelvin Flats) which meant it took a long time (and the introduction of Stagecoach) before they reached the initial "target" of (IIRC) fifteen million passenger journeys a year.

    Then again, it was always going to be hard to estimate what the passenger numbers would be, unlike Manchester, as there was no existing rail market that the trams were replacing (whereas the Mancunians could use the existing volume of train passengers to Altricham/ Bury as a benchmark).

    Agreed.

    Is there any scope for enhanced capacity though? AIUI the NLL is pretty much at capacity (due to freight), so is there scope for extending the 378s?

    I've noticed that. I wondered whether it was because the design means (assuming that you are sat down) that you are never with your back to anyone, so you don't have to worry about what is going on behind your shoulder?

    Plus increased passenger volumes mean passengers are less likely to feel isolated - anti social behaviour is much easier when there are only a handful of people on board.

    The 378s are better than I expected them to be; they have grown on me.
     
  31. Statto

    Statto Established Member

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    The benefit London has is a regulated bus service, even Thatcher wouldn't even dream of D-regulating London bus routes. Your lucky if you can get a bus before 10am on a Sunday in the rest of the Country outside the PTE areas, never mind a Train.
     
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