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New national restrictions in Scotland

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RomeoCharlie71

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I suppose this is deserving of a new thread.

"Level 4" restrictions to take effect from 26th December for 3 weeks, reviewed after 2.

And school pupils have been shafted again, with a delayed return to education and (at least) one week for online learning in January.

Public opinion on Twitter seems to be generally supportive, but I expect nothing less of hardcore nationalists who take everything that Queen Nicola says as holy gospel.
 
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Scotrail314209

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I suppose this is deserving of a new thread.

"Level 4" restrictions to take effect from 26th December for 3 weeks, reviewed after 2.


And school pupils have been shafted again, with a delayed return to education and (at least) one week for online learning in January.

Shocked but not surprised.
 

Cdd89

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If the impending threat is so vital that schooling needs to be compromised, what excuse is there for even a day of Christmas?

To be clear, I don't think either should be cancelled. But keeping Christmas and cancelling schools is prioritising the emotional over the societal.
 

scotrail158713

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I was most surprised about the blanket level four. Areas like Dumfries & Galloway and the Borders are all level one currently - but are getting shot up to four come Boxing Day.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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Guess I'll find out what the border restrictions look like tomorrow afternoon.
The police have already said that they will not be actively setting up road blocks or stopping vehicles. They may, however, find someone who has travelled from England (or another LA) as part of their regular duties.

Edit 19:09: Police Scotland have issued an official statement regarding this: https://www.scotland.police.uk/what...nges-to-restrictions-over-the-festive-period/

Police Scotland has issued a statement following changes to restrictions over the festive period:

Assistant Chief Constable Alan Speirs said: “I fully understand that people will be disappointed with the tightening of restrictions, particularly at this time of year.

“The vast majority of the public have been complying with the regulations and so the policing approach we adopted from the outset of the pandemic will not change.

“Our officers will continue to engage with the public, explain the legislation and guidance, and encourage compliance. We will use enforcement as a last resort where there is a clear breach of the legislation.

“The Chief Constable has called on people to take personal responsibility to do the right thing and remember the purpose of these measures is to aid the collective effort to save lives by preventing the virus from spreading.”

"We have been very clear that we will not be routinely stopping vehicles or setting up road blocks. However, officers may in the course of their duties come across people who are travelling from one local authority area to another.

“Where travel restrictions apply, officers will continue to use the common sense, discretion and excellent judgement that they have applied since the crisis began."
 
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nlogax

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Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
The police have already said that they will not be actively setting up road blocks or stopping vehicles. They may, however, find someone who has travelled from England (or another LA) as part of their regular duties.

Edit 19:09: Police Scotland have issued an official statement regarding this: https://www.scotland.police.uk/what...nges-to-restrictions-over-the-festive-period/
Cheers for that, good to know. Have my explanation at the ready as always, just in case. Police Scotland seem to be a very decent bunch and tbh I've no problem with them stopping me. If it happens then no doubt it'll be a perfectly reasonable conversation.

Cross border household / 'bubble' stuff always seems so nebulous when most speeches and media reports seem to focus on them existing wholly within individual countries and not the UK as a whole.
 

kez19

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I wonder how many politicians will abide by the rules?

I just see this is another kicking the can down the road approach (basically in short had enough of listening to both Sturgeon and Boris)

Yet its laughable past few weeks on STV and other broadcasters the whole 5 day of grace was a con in itself.

I suppose this is deserving of a new thread.

"Level 4" restrictions to take effect from 26th December for 3 weeks, reviewed after 2.


And school pupils have been shafted again, with a delayed return to education and (at least) one week for online learning in January.


Public opinion on Twitter seems to be generally supportive, but I expect nothing less of hardcore nationalists who take everything that Queen Nicola says as holy gospel.


So why move levels of say the Highlands to Level 3? I am currently in Level 3 but will move to 4, why not have just kept areas as they were? Aah forgot just to keep in line with rest of the UK but if it balls up, its pass the buck once again.
 

Butts

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Outrage Falkirk being moved from Level 2 to Level 4 !!

How is enforcement going to work on Trains and Planes ?

I'm due to fly from EDI-BHX on 23/12 and back on 27/12 - will the Flights be cancelled ?
 

MattA7

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Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if Sturgeon doesn’t impose a “vaccine lockdown” as she has always been obsessed with oppressing people’s freedom restrictions until there is a vaccine.
 

scotrail158713

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It didn’t half take her a while to get round to her point though - 5.30 she started and it was 5.45 before she finally announced household mixing only on 25th. :)
 

Yew

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Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if Sturgeon doesn’t impose a “vaccine lockdown” as she has always been obsessed with oppressing people’s freedom restrictions until there is a vaccine.
Indeed, perhaps the complete inverse of 'you can take our lives, but never take our freedom'
 

island

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Outrage Falkirk being moved from Level 2 to Level 4 !!

How is enforcement going to work on Trains and Planes ?

I'm due to fly from EDI-BHX on 23/12 and back on 27/12 - will the Flights be cancelled ?
If you are resident in Scotland it is an offence for you to do this.
 

Scotrail314209

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You know, we could have it considerably worse. Yes it’s rubbish moving into Tier 4 on Boxing Day, but Wales and England are moving into it tomorrow.

We’ve got that time to finish all the Christmas preparations.

Just continue as normal for now
 

Butts

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If you are resident in Scotland it is an offence for you to do this.

Is it ?

What if I am travelling for work is that exempted ?

I will be in uniform with my "Ausweis"

I think the ban only comes in from Boxing Day as I understand it ?

Are you privy to how it is going to be policed at Airports ?
 

RomeoCharlie71

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You know, we could have it considerably worse. Yes it’s rubbish moving into Tier 4 on Boxing Day, but Wales and England are moving into it tomorrow.

We’ve got that time to finish all the Christmas preparations.

Just continue as normal for now
No, only London and the South East are moving into Tier 4. Areas currently in tier 1, 2 and 3 (that were not moved from 2 to 3 today) are unaffected. Wales were already destined for a nationwide lockdown post-Christmas.

The Scottish blanket approach of level 4 everywhere on the mainland is crazy and ludicrous, particularly in areas such as the Highlands, Moray and maybe even Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire, where there are an (under-)estimated 17 cases of the new "strain" in Scotland, in the Glasgow area.
 

Butts

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No, only London and the South East are moving into Tier 4. Areas currently in tier 1, 2 and 3 (that were not moved from 2 to 3 today) are unaffected. Wales were already destined for a nationwide lockdown post-Christmas.

The Scottish blanket approach of level 4 everywhere on the mainland is crazy and ludicrous, particularly in areas such as the Highlands, Moray and maybe even Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire, where there are an (under-)estimated 17 cases of the new "strain" in Scotland, in the Glasgow area.

Has the time come for a mass campaign of civil disobedience to reverse these draconian measures ?
 
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Is it ?

What if I am travelling for work is that exempted ?

I will be in uniform with my "Ausweis"

I think the ban only comes in from Boxing Day as I understand it ?

Are you privy to how it is going to be policed at Airports ?

The Regulation restricting travel into and out of Scotland came into force on 2nd November under The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions and Requirements) (Local Levels) (Scotland) Regulations 2020

Travel for work is allowed if the work cannot be done from home
Full list of exceptions here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/344/schedule/7A
 

kez19

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At least that'll give the media some cannon fodder...

Awaits the excuses.... I’m exempt, I’m a politician, I didn’t know, don’t dare question me...

If you are resident in Scotland it is an offence for you to do this.

Ask that same question if that was a politician, I could seem getting a free pass.
 

JonathanH

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The Regulation restricting travel into and out of Scotland came into force on 2nd November under The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions and Requirements) (Local Levels) (Scotland) Regulations 2020
To be pedantic. although the restrictions have now been inserted in SI2020/344 which originally came into force on 2nd November, the restriction on travel into and out of Scotland was inserted into that legislation by SI2020/389 which came into force at 6pm on 20 November 2020.

Coming into force at 6.00 p.m. on 20th November 2020

(5) After schedule 7 (face covering requirements) insert—

“SCHEDULE 7A Restrictions on leaving or entering Scotland: common travel area​

Restrictions on leaving Scotland​

1.—(1) A person who lives in Scotland must not leave Scotland for the purpose of entering or remaining in a place within the common travel area mentioned in paragraph 4.
(2) But a person who lives in Scotland may travel through such a place in order to reach another destination.
(3) This paragraph is without prejudice to the restrictions in Part 4 of schedule 4 and Part 4 of schedule 5.

Restrictions on entering Scotland​

2.—(1) A person who lives in a place within the common travel area mentioned in paragraph 4 must not enter or remain in Scotland.
(2) But a person who does not live in Scotland may travel through Scotland in order to reach a place outwith Scotland.
 

David M

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I was most surprised about the blanket level four. Areas like Dumfries & Galloway and the Borders are all level one currently - but are getting shot up to four come Boxing Day.
If you delve deeper, you will find that the BGH is almost at breaking point and that there have been 101 new cases in the last 7 days.
Galashiels has seen many people travelling by train from Gorebridge, Newtongrange and Edinburgh simply for drinking sessions.
Melrose has required regular Police visits to The Ship Inn and King's Arms due to social distancing being ignored by some very, very drunk people.
When even the Tory MSP Adam Tomkins (no lover of The Scottish Government) has fully supported the new measures, it beggars belief that the reactions here mention things like Queen Nicola and coup d'etats.
Do none of you have any conception about how serious this is?
This is a dreadful disease that you would not wish upon your worst enemy.
Not travelling means not spreading the disease.
For all your complaints about how Scotland has handled this pandemic, consider that in the last week, the various countries that make up the UK have seen:
England - over 105,000 new cases and over 2,500 deaths
Wales - over 11,700 new cases and 140 deaths
Northern Ireland - over 3,200 new cases and 74 deaths
Scotland - over 6,100 new cases and 195 deaths
The graph below confirms that Scotland has been doing better that the other 3 nations in fighting Covid but it is still a dreadful situation.
Closing the borders will, hopefully, prevent the spread of the disease by people infected in London and elsewhere.
The virus is spread by people mixing and, crucially, travelling. It's not rocket science to see that reducing mixing and travelling will help reduce the spread of the virus.
image_2020-12-20_110116.png
Scotland's R-number is between 0.9 and 1.1 while England's is between 1.1 and 1.3 (and growing at 5% per week). Anything 1 and above is bad.
Everything that The Scottish Government announced yesterday was solely based on science, fact and statistics. Do you really think that any politician from any party wakens up and says I want to shut everything down due to badness? I'm going to shut the border because I can? Behave yourselves.
As touched on above, even (yes, even) the Tories in Scotland are on board - surely, that tells you enough to realise that this is real?
Adam Tomkins MSP tweeted:
This is not about constitutional politics. Not this time. Let’s be crystal clear about that. If it was, I’d the first to jump and down about it. Devastating news about the new restrictions across Scotland and rUK. But please abide by them. Plainly, the situation is serious. This is going to be very tough on millions of folk. But it will be even worse if this thing runs out of control. Stay safe. Take no unnecessary risks.
Douglas Ross stated:
Restrictions necessary, says Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross.
You would not like to hear my opinions of either Tomkins or Ross but, come on, they're behind the new restrictions and yet people here think you know better?
You don't.
 

Yew

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This is a dreadful disease that you would not wish upon your worst enemy.
80% of people have no observable symptoms, the infection fatality rate is 0.2%. This is a slightly more dangerous than usual respiratory illness, not the bubonic plague.
 

David M

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80% of people have no observable symptoms, the infection fatality rate is 0.2%. This is a slightly more dangerous than usual respiratory illness, not the bubonic plague.
So you're
a) a virologist, qualified to make such a statement?
or
b) simply typing the first thing that comes into your head?
With nearly 19,000 people in hospital, good luck getting a bed were you to be run over by a car today. It's not as simple or clear cut as you seem to think.
By the way, the fatality rate is almost double your suggested figure.
1608463592570.png
 

kylemore

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If you delve deeper, you will find that the BGH is almost at breaking point and that there have been 101 new cases in the last 7 days.
Galashiels has seen many people travelling by train from Gorebridge, Newtongrange and Edinburgh simply for drinking sessions.
Melrose has required regular Police visits to The Ship Inn and King's Arms due to social distancing being ignored by some very, very drunk people.
When even the Tory MSP Adam Tomkins (no lover of The Scottish Government) has fully supported the new measures, it beggars belief that the reactions here mention things like Queen Nicola and coup d'etats.
Do none of you have any conception about how serious this is?
This is a dreadful disease that you would not wish upon your worst enemy.
Not travelling means not spreading the disease.
For all your complaints about how Scotland has handled this pandemic, consider that in the last week, the various countries that make up the UK have seen:
England - over 105,000 new cases and over 2,500 deaths
Wales - over 11,700 new cases and 140 deaths
Northern Ireland - over 3,200 new cases and 74 deaths
Scotland - over 6,100 new cases and 195 deaths
The graph below confirms that Scotland has been doing better that the other 3 nations in fighting Covid but it is still a dreadful situation.
Closing the borders will, hopefully, prevent the spread of the disease by people infected in London and elsewhere.
The virus is spread by people mixing and, crucially, travelling. It's not rocket science to see that reducing mixing and travelling will help reduce the spread of the virus.
View attachment 87366
Scotland's R-number is between 0.9 and 1.1 while England's is between 1.1 and 1.3 (and growing at 5% per week). Anything 1 and above is bad.
Everything that The Scottish Government announced yesterday was solely based on science, fact and statistics. Do you really think that any politician from any party wakens up and says I want to shut everything down due to badness? I'm going to shut the border because I can? Behave yourselves.
As touched on above, even (yes, even) the Tories in Scotland are on board - surely, that tells you enough to realise that this is real?
Adam Tomkins MSP tweeted:
This is not about constitutional politics. Not this time. Let’s be crystal clear about that. If it was, I’d the first to jump and down about it. Devastating news about the new restrictions across Scotland and rUK. But please abide by them. Plainly, the situation is serious. This is going to be very tough on millions of folk. But it will be even worse if this thing runs out of control. Stay safe. Take no unnecessary risks.
Douglas Ross stated:
Restrictions necessary, says Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross.
You would not like to hear my opinions of either Tomkins or Ross but, come on, they're behind the new restrictions and yet people here think you know better?
You don't.
All based on a test that Yucca Plants and Coca Cola test positive to!
 
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