New plans for the over 60s...

[Sir_Clagalot]

Seen in the May Railnews...
MPs are now asking (or demanding) that the free bus travel for the over 60s is extended to the railways!!
Does this mean that Guards are going to have to do a full Pax count as well as an Over 60s count between all stations?? Like we have enough time to do tickets some times never mind count them as well!!

 

[Ferret]

Utterly ridiculous. So, we're in a recession, the public finances are well into the red and yet some crackpot MP reckons we can afford to subsidise travel for OAPs at a cost of heaven knows what. What planet do these idiots live on?

 

[me123]

Not to mention the attitude of some elderly people. And what's it going to do for overcrowding? Won't ease things, that's for certain.

 

[Mojo]

I know in some areas, local over 60s have rail travel included with their bus pass, but that's only a select few areas and also for locals only.

I can see why free bus passes can be a good idea - many buses are running empty, but it's implementation has been appalling, leading to cuts by bus companies and also by local authorities who don't get enough money out of the central government grant.

 

[me123]

Yes, in the old SPT area there's a 40p flat-fare single for all concessionary card holders off-peak, which works well considering relatively low loadings outwith peak times.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I can see the point in much reduced travel costs off-peak. As you may know GC have a specific fare for the over 60s, in that the ticket they can get is 50% of the Anytime fare, and they can also use their railcard to get the normal 1/3rd off the off-peak GC fares too...

 

[maddeningcrowds]

If it does go ahead, instead of counting them on the train couldn't you instead insist they had a valid ticket for the journey. Priced at 0.00.

 

[me123]

That happens on Scotrail's/Transport Scotland's 40p scheme. They insist that they purchase a ticket from Origin to Destination regardless of the journey.

This allows:

• Operation of the Automatic Ticket Barriers
• A degree of Revenue protection; they're not using the same ticket over and over
• Presumably they can also reclaim the full cost

I'd maybe suggest that a better nationwide option would be a free Senior Railcard, an idea which I'm sure ATOC will love.

 

[Mojo]

If anything, it should be means tested. Why should someone get a free Railcard just because of their age? What about under 25s who can't afford one too?

 

[me123]

I'm also in favour of students using their student cards as railcards, or obtaining one for free, and the concessionary scheme in Scotland for school kids. I'd say that you should qualify for a free railcard if you are:

• 16-18 in full time education
• Full time student
• Retired/OAP

That's just my views, though. It'll probably never happen. I thoroughly oppose the SSP/Solidarity's policy of free public transport for everyone earning under a certain amount, because they also propose that everyone else pays more to fund it. That's why I wouldn't give it to anyone.

Besides, don't unemployed people get a New Deal Railcard/Photocard anyway? My suggestion covers people who aren't jobseekers.

 

[jon0844]

FCC is offering free travel with a bus pass within the same area covered by the bus pass (e.g. Hertfordshire) and I think they're also giving 50% off other tickets.

 

[clagmonster]

The local buses in Grimsby operate a system whereby OAPs with their pass are issued with a zero fare ticket. The other problem with the implementation of this is that if the zero fares were available from TVMs, then you would get a lot of fare dodgers just 'buying' a zero fare ticket and putting it through the automatic barriers.

 

[ffcphone]

The major issue here, of course, is who is going to pay for extending the scheme to include rail travel. Bus travel for the over 60s is not actually free at all as the local authority where the concession ticket is issued is presented with a bill from the bus companies to cover their costs. The local authority meets this bill from taxes raised from you and I. Several councils have already claimed the OAP concession is being used so heavily that peak time usage costs have been increased and there's a very real danger that other areas of public funding will be affected. Widening the scheme to take into account rail travel will only put further strain on an already creaking system.

As has been mooted above, I'd far rather my taxes were spent providing free transport for those who genuinely need it ie have low incomes and no access to private transport of their own. I don't see why a well-off middle class lady in her 60s with a 3 month old Jaguar in the driveway should qualify for free bus travel just because of her age alone.

F

 

[Bill EWS]

Mojo. As the bus companies get paid the money from local councils, doesn't that mean they are getting paid for the many times when there are no over 60's on a bus! Perhaps tax payers should be asking the cash back on every bus that doesn't include any over 60's at the times they are allowed to travel.

 

[clagmonster]

I assume that's why zero fare tickets are issued, so that there are exact records of which buses are used by those with the free passes, so that the council can be billed accodingly. Unless some councils don't have this system, I don't see that there will ever be a case of taxpayers paying for buses without pensioner on under this scheme.
I think this is another pre-election gimic designed to get pensioners to vote for whichever party has come out with this. There are the European elections in a couple of weeks, and it isn't all that long until we can get rid of Mr Happy and replace him with Dave. I suppose the one advantage of these gimics, as opposed to giving pensioners a decent pension and having done with it is that it get pensioners out of their cars and onto public transport. I don't mean that in an offensive way, I just mean that people in general should be moving to publoc transport.

 

[Mojo]

I assume that's why zero fare tickets are issued, so that there are exact records of which buses are used by those with the free passes, so that the council can be billed accodingly. Unless some councils don't have this system, I don't see that there will ever be a case of taxpayers paying for buses without pensioner on under this scheme.

It is, I believe. Some ticket machines can't cope with recording journeys like that. In the ex-West Midlands county most companies don't issue tickets, the driver just pressing a button, and I know of others that just issue a zero fare ticket, whereas some insist on an origin and destination! I even remember one (now defunct) company in Bristol that had ancient machines that only printed the route number, date, time & price (the driver couldn't input fare stages/destinations or anything). On that company, tickets were issued for 2p!

 

[jon0844]

The buses in Hatfield issue a zero-fare ticket. However, I've always suspected that a bus operator will just allow someone on if they don't want to record them as travelling (i.e. the operator is looking to drop a route due to lack of usage).

By contrast, I remember London bus drivers pressing 'travelcard' about a million times when picking up people - presumably so the operator got a larger share of the revenue. Less of an issue now with Oyster, possible changes to the revenue sharing and the risk of an inspector wondering how 400,000 people fit on the bus!

 

[Techniquest]

Besides, don't unemployed people get a New Deal Railcard/Photocard anyway? My suggestion covers people who aren't jobseekers.

Supposedly, but no-one's ever heard of it and there is virtually nothing on the Internet you can access to tell you how to get it. I could do with it myself, but I know if I walk into the Jobcentre and ask them about it, all I'd get is blank faces. For Goodness sake, they can't sort out their own paperwork to the extent they ring you up to ask why you haven't attended a course when you have been there and have evidence to say so! :roll:

 

[First class]

What a waste of money.

However, it does have some benefits for all of us.

1. Underused branch lines would be used more- TOCs could be forced by the DfT to increase services/capacity.
2. Rolling stock would temporarily be overcrowded. Eventually new rolling stock would have to be built. Perhaps the DfT would be more willing to look at larger projections of passenger numbers- therefore larger trains.
3. Most stations would have to be improved for accessibility purposes

However-

They should lose the right to complain. It's free for gods sake!!! By mine, the buses are every 5mins. Yet when the bus driver won't wait for them- it's oh what a terrible world we live in, having to stand here waiting for a bus, better write a letter of complaint.