New rail ombudsman to handle passenger complaints

[ainsworth74]

I'll not get too excited, the furniture ombudsmen are a joke.

I must admit that this hardly inspires confidence:

...

In March, Frank and Joan Johnson took delivery of a £2,500 two-piece suite from Rodgers of York, paying an extra £140 for five year Staingard protection. But they say that after just two weeks of use the sofa looked stained and “awful”.

Rodgers sent a manager to examine the sofa, who said that was supposed to happen to the chenille fabric and that it was an “authentic” look. He claimed it was their jeans that were causing the problem and refused their request for a full refund. The firm paid for the cushions to be professionally cleaned, which temporally restored their colour, but left the couple having to shell out for a professional clean every few weeks if they wanted the sofa to maintain its colour.

The Johnsons pointed out that none of other chairs used by the family had the same problem and that the towels and sheets they had been forced to use on top of the sofa had not been discoloured by their clothes.

The Rodgers manager said if they were unhappy with the decision, they could contact the Furniture Ombudsman for independent arbitration. But the Johnsons say their experience with the ombudsman, which is a limited company, not a government body, has left them with a lack of confidence in its ability to deal with what they say was a reasonable claim.

The ombudsman says it made its decision in good faith on the evidence provided. The Johnsons say it declined their claim for a refund without even examining the sofa in their home. The ombudsman looked at the report sent to it by Rodgers, examined the photographs and other evidence provided by the Johnsons, and decided in favour of the furniture company.

The Johnsons’ son-in-law, Andy Steele, took up their case. “As they had effectively been told that their everyday clothing would cause discolouration of the suite and that a two- to three-weekly professional cleaning regime was required to keep the suite in a presentable condition, they assumed the Furniture Ombudsman would find in their favour,” Steele says.

“But they were astonished when, two weeks later, they received a letter saying that having looked at the report filed by Rodgers and our photos, the ombudsman had decided it was due to general wear and tear. It was a joke.”

Undaunted, the family sought legal advice and in August filed a claim against Rodgers in the small claims court. The Johnsons say the court saw similar evidence as the ombudsman had and awarded them a full refund. The retailer did not contest the claim and a default judgment was entered in favour of the the Johnsons.

...

 

[greatkingrat]

Was that not something wholly separate - a somewhat informal Penalty Fares appeal body?

Yes, the advert earlier this year was for penalty fares appeals.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...third-stage-independent-appeals-panel.159149/

 

[Hadders]

Ah of course.

Are we really getting both an independent appeals panel and an ombudsman? In addition to Passenger Focus and London Travelwatch....

 

[furlong]

Well the Penalty Fares final appeals panel seems to have been set up in a way that allows it to set itself (non-binding) precedent i.e. when making a decision it may refer to previous decisions and it is not restricted to considering the arguments put to it by the two sides but can introduce arguments of its own. (To what extent it will use these powers remains to be seen, of course.)

If the ombudsman is set up to work a similar way, and significant decisions are published, then you could get sensible feedback loops that begin to sort out some of the ambiguities with fares and other rules. For example, if it rules, hypothetically, that a TOC was wrong to charge a particular higher fare instead of a lower one because terms were ambiguous or not presented to the passenger in line with the conditions of travel or consumer law, then RDG clearly finds out what the TOCs need to change to get the required clarity - to the benefit of both TOCs and consumers. It also strengthens the role of RDG - we've seen cases on the forum where TOCs chose to disregard RDG guidance - now you would expect the ombudsman would either enforce it or point out where it needs to change.

 

[furlong]

Of course, I'd like to see an ombudsman with wider powers. For example, in an individual case that uncovers a class of passengers found to have been overcharged, the power to order the TOCs to make reasonable efforts to notify other overcharged passengers that they may also have a claim. "Did you purchase an anytime return from X to Y valid between dates A and B routed R1 at the price of P? The ombudsman has ruled this fare should not have been sold to you because there was a cheaper fare with greater validity. You may be due a refund of R that represents the difference in fare plus compensation of C. To claim..." [Really, though, it's the ORR that should be doing this based on mandatory referrals from the ombudsman and the TOCs themselves.]

 

[Deerfold]

Transport Focus ran a recruitment programme for case handlers for this earlier in the year, iirc. You get something like £8 per case.

That's unfortunate - so it's in the case handler's interest to spend as little time as possible on a case?

(Some people will keep pushing, but many will not if they encounter another hurdle).

 

[mallard]

Passenger Focus

Passenger Focus was abolished in 2015. It was replaced by "Transport Focus", which, as the name suggests has a very different "focus" and is even less inclined to take up passenger issues.

 

[Hadders]

Passenger Focus was abolished in 2015. It was replaced by "Transport Focus", which, as the name suggests has a very different "focus" and is even less inclined to take up passenger issues.

Apologies, slip of the finger!

 

[snail]

What does EDA mean?

Yes I was wondering that too.

 

[Haywain]

Yes I was wondering that too.

I think it means Edinburgh Airport Bus/Tram or something similar. I suspect it's a problem with buying through tickets but only the poster who first mentioned it can explain that.

 

[sheff1]

In August 2017 RDG announced that the independent ombudsman was "expected to start early next year".

By October 2017 that had changed to "will be introduced by Summer 2018".

In Summer 2018 (July to be precise) the announcement came, as reported in this thread, that the ombudsman "will launch in November 2018".

As November is now just a couple of weeks away, is anyone taking bets on whether the next announcement will be the launch or another delay ?

 

[sprunt]

There was a bit about rail in yesterday's Rip Off Britain Live on BBC1, including an interview with a high-up from RDG. I was only half paying attention but when the ombudsman was mentioned I'm pretty sure that it was only as a "coming soon" thing - no indication that it would be launching within the next month or so.

 

[infobleep]

Has the job been formally advertised anywhere?

 

[323235]

Yes I have seen the original application documents (can't remember where) and it was similar to Transport Focus in terms of the payment per case.

I did consider applying but I didn't think the financial incentive were high enough.

 

[Mojo]

Yes I have seen the original application documents (can't remember where) and it was similar to Transport Focus in terms of the payment per case.

I did consider applying but I didn't think the financial incentive were high enough.

Wasn't that the Penalty fares appeal body?

 

[Haywain]

Wasn't that the Penalty fares appeal body?

I thought it was the Ombudsman, but you could be right.

 

[furlong]

Interestingly, LNER already claims to use Transport Focus as its ombudsman in respect of UFNs.

If your appeal isn’t successful and you want to appeal further, you’ll need to contact Transport Focus. They are an independent ombudsman who will liaise directly with London North Eastern Railway Limited to make a final decision.

 

[gray1404]

And yet TF have told me they can't compel a TOC to make a decision. LNER wrong again.

Still no launch date for an ombudsman for rail passenger complaints

 

[janb]

Received leaflets with information about the Rail Ombudsman at work today. Haven't read it yet so I can't offer more than that right now but it is happening.

 

[Haywain]

And yet TF have told me they can't compel a TOC to make a decision. LNER wrong again.

Still no launch date for an ombudsman for rail passenger complaints

If LNER accept and act on the decision of Transport Focus there is nothing wrong with their statement.

 

[infobleep]

If LNER accept and act on the decision of Transport Focus there is nothing wrong with their statement.

Perhaps someone could test this out. Need to have a reason to contact the ombudsman though.

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit that this hardly inspires confidence:

Should have used moquette.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Received leaflets with information about the Rail Ombudsman at work today. Haven't read it yet so I can't offer more than that right now but it is happening.

Leaflets about it are now out on public display at Birmingham New St, with the usual who we are, what we do, how to use us etc. It gives their website as railombudsman.org and their Twitter as @ railombudsman.

Edit - Twitter account live but protected, presumably until a snazzy official launch.

 

[deltic]

That's unfortunate - so it's in the case handler's interest to spend as little time as possible on a case?

(Some people will keep pushing, but many will not if they encounter another hurdle).

My wife works for an ombudsman - average case takes around 2 days work and a lot more in elapsed time to deal with and requires considerable experience of organisations process and procedures. I saw a picture of Rail ombudsman staff completing their training, all looked straight out of college which is what you would expect given the level of pay. Given that disputes that go to the ombudsman are likely to be more complex I can’t see this working well and there is likely to be a high staff turnover.

 

[gray1404]

Is anyone able to obtain and scan or photo a copy of these new leaflets that are available. I've asked and had a look at a few stations in Merseyside (including Liverpool Lime Street) but couldn't get one.

 

[deltic]

Presumably its this leaflet which is on the Greater Anglia website website https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/sit...dsman_quick_start_guide_-_final_-_english.pdf

 

[gray1404]

Thanks very much for posting this.

Interesting you can get in touch if your complaint hasn't been resolved within 40 working days. So if Northern (and other TOCs) continue to take forever to respond to Delay Repay claims then the Rail Ombudsman can look into this.....

I wonder if this Ombudsman will work in a similar way to that of the Financial Services Ombudsman in that if I customer takes a complaint to them then the service provider has to pay quite a high fee for it to be looked it by them. If so, this could cost the TOCs a lot of money for not resolving a complaint while they have the chance.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks very much for posting this.

Interesting you can get in touch if your complaint hasn't been resolved within 40 working days. So if Northern (and other TOCs) continue to take forever to respond to Delay Repay claims then the Rail Ombudsman can look into this.....

I wonder if this Ombudsman will work in a similar way to that of the Financial Services Ombudsman in that if I customer takes a complaint to them then the service provider has to pay quite a high fee for it to be looked it by them. If so, this could cost the TOCs a lot of money for not resolving a complaint while they have the chance.

I don't think the fee will be anywhere near as high - after all, FSO uses qualified solicitors to deal with complaints. But yes, advising the train company that you intend to take a complaint to the Rail Ombudsman may encourage them to make at least an offer of compensation for any issues that arise (probably most likely in the form of Rail Travel Vouchers, or free tickets, both of which are not guaranteed to actually cost the TOC anything, unlike, say, a cheque).

 

[gray1404]

I'm sure they'll use the term "goodwill gesture" for any such offers.

I just hope that the RO is not simply going to be ineffective Transport Focus under a different name. I hope that the RO has real powers to compel the TOCs to do something and its not default anti-customer (which TF appears to have become in their stance on many issues including split tickets and passenger rights).

 

[Hadders]

Interesting to see they're based just down the road from me. Convenient if I ever need to go and see them in person....