New rail station - Leeds

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Bayum

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With the green light being given for work in West Yorkshire/Manchester, one of the articles I read mentioned a new station for the Leeds area. Any idea what this is? I’ve been painfully ignorant.
 
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_toommm_

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I believe it’s meant to be one near Morley and Cottingley for the White Rose Centre. There’s a bit of guff about it in the Transpennine Electrification thread:


I reckon there could be scope for both a Cottingley and White Rose station, if a TP service is diverted via Wakefield and Castleford to York it could work.

It seems a shame to close Cottingley when there has been so much housing development around the station area and when the White Rose must be suffering a massive decline in footfall.
 

steamybrian

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It also mentions funding for a new station called Thorpe Park in East Leeds on the Selby line
 

YorksLad12

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I haven't seen the today's release but the mentions here in a different thread said £15m and three stations, two of which are White Rose and Thorpe Arch Park. This is interesting to me because I'm assuming that's £15m each (Low Moor cost £10.8m in 2017), and because these two Leeds stations, together with Leeds Bradford International Airport Parkway, were developed as part of a (I think) £175m Leeds-wide transport funding sop when the Leeds Trolleybus scheme was cancelled. That funding was time-limited though, so you have to wonder where it went!
 
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Pit_buzzer

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White rose is one, probably at the expense of cottingley. The other is Thorpe Park, not Thorpe arch. Both have been planned for a long time and will be interesting to see how they develop
 

Spartacus

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I can possibly see Cottingley retained for a while, though I expect it’ll either only get services in the morning peak, with services not calling White Rose, or either one of the TPE locals or Northerns will stop at one or the other.

White Rose really isn’t going to be all that convenient for the White Rose Centre, about 400m as the crow flies from the nearest exit, roughly at the end of Millshaw Park Avenue, and I wonder if that might prove offputting to some.
 

xotGD

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I can possibly see Cottingley retained for a while, though I expect it’ll either only get services in the morning peak, with services not calling White Rose, or either one of the TPE locals or Northerns will stop at one or the other.

White Rose really isn’t going to be all that convenient for the White Rose Centre, about 400m as the crow flies from the nearest exit, roughly at the end of Millshaw Park Avenue, and I wonder if that might prove offputting to some.
The morning peak is when White Rose is needed, to deposit workers at the office park. Hopefully it will persuade some to switch from car to train. Currently, there are very few who get there via a train to Cottingley.
 

Mollman

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Thorpe Park is located between Crossgates and Garforth (next to the 'village' of Colton) there has been an office park there for many years but recently new housing and a shopping centre has sprung up, there is also new housing near by on the former Optare/Roe factory site and the former Royal Ordinance factory which was once rail served. It is also ideally located next the the M1 (originally A1M1 link road) giving a good Park and Ride element to it. I hope that Crossgates will not close, however until electrification and associated route enhancements happens east of Leeds it might be a bit tight fitting an extra stop into the local services.
 

willgreen

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Thorpe Park is located between Crossgates and Garforth (next to the 'village' of Colton) there has been an office park there for many years but recently new housing and a shopping centre has sprung up, there is also new housing near by on the former Optare/Roe factory site and the former Royal Ordinance factory which was once rail served. It is also ideally located next the the M1 (originally A1M1 link road) giving a good Park and Ride element to it. I hope that Crossgates will not close, however until electrification and associated route enhancements happens east of Leeds it might be a bit tight fitting an extra stop into the local services.
Cross Gates won't be closing. There are (vague) proposals to four-track bits of the Leeds-York line which should hypothetically permit an all-stops service alongside the long-distance traffic.
 

Spartacus

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I can imagine there'll be a lot of tickets purchased to Thorpe Park confused with the spot between Virginia Water and Chertsey, Alton gets enough people who really wanted to travel to Staffordshire.....
 

robbeech

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It also mentions funding for a new station called Thorpe Park in East Leeds on the Selby line
Lets hope people don't make the Abbey Road mistake with that one. a single from Thorpe Park To Chertsey would be quite expensive and time consuming!
 

61653 HTAFC

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The morning peak is when White Rose is needed, to deposit workers at the office park. Hopefully it will persuade some to switch from car to train. Currently, there are very few who get there via a train to Cottingley.
This is one of many reasons that White Rose station is an utterly bonkers idea. Let's examine some of the things that don't quite add up about the scheme:
  • It's being promoted as "White Rose Centre" station, but is apparently more aimed at the office complex adjacent to the centre. I can't see how a station could easily serve both without significant and expensive adjustments to allow access to both facilities. Unless it is actually adjacent to the shopping centre and linked by a covered walkway á la Meadowhall Interchange, it shouldn't be named after it. Call it Beeston Office Park if you must have a station, at least that doesn't reek of dishonesty. When Meadowhall opened, it's interesting to note that the powers that be didn't simply rename Brightside, and give it a coat of paint and signposts to the mall.
  • White Rose Centre is a dying mall which will always be focused on the private car. Meanwhile Leeds city centre was (pre-pandemic) one the the country's top retail destinations. If I was a Leeds ratepayer running a business in the city centre I would not take kindly to a failing facility being propped up by LCC/WYCA/The DfT.
  • Cottingley station has had hundreds of houses built right on its doorstep over the last 10-15 years. These houses were promoted as being ideal for those commuting into Leeds and beyond precisely because of the station. Now the station is probably being moved 200-300yards and that will make a big difference on a wet Monday morning to those people living there.
  • Are we still expecting things like office traffic to return to pre-pandemic levels? It, along with retail, are probably going to be the longest and hardest hit by the post-pandemic "adjustment": lots of people have found home-working at least part of the time to be preferable to commuting five days a week. Likewise people have become more familiar with shopping online too... So, let's build a station to serve (depending on who you ask) a large office park or a shopping centre- both of which are fairly likely to see a decline in footfall compared to 2019. :rolleyes:
You could run a free shuttle bus from Cottingley station to both the office park and the mall for many years before it cost as much as this ridiculous idea... but that wouldn't grab headlines or votes now, would it?
 
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gledhill56

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This is one of many reasons that White Rose station is an utterly bonkers idea. Let's examine some of the things that don't quite add up about the scheme:
  • It's being promoted as "White Rose Centre" station, but is apparently more aimed at the office complex adjacent to the centre. I can't see how a station could easily serve both without significant and expensive adjustments to allow access to both facilities. Unless it is actually adjacent to the shopping centre and linked by a covered walkway á la Meadowhall Interchange, it shouldn't be named after it. Call it Beeston Office Park if you must have a station, at least that doesn't reek of dishonesty. When Meadowhall opened, it's interesting to note that the powers that be didn't simply rename Brightside, and give it a coat of paint and signposts to the mall.
  • White Rose Centre is a dying mall which will always be focused on the private car. Meanwhile Leeds city centre was (pre-pandemic) one the the country's top retail destinations. If I was a Leeds ratepayer running a business in the city centre I would not take kindly to a failing facility being propped up by LCC/WYCA/The DfT.
  • Cottingley station has had hundreds of houses built right on its doorstep over the last 10-15 years. These houses were promoted as being ideal for those commuting into Leeds and beyond precisely because of the station. Now the station is probably being moved 200-300yards and that will make a big difference on a wet Monday morning to those people living there.
  • Are we still expecting things like office traffic to return to pre-pandemic levels? It, along with retail, are probably going to be the longest and hardest hit by the post-pandemic "adjustment": lots of people have found home-working at least part of the time to be preferable to commuting five days a week. Likewise people have become more familiar with shopping online too... So, let's build a station to serve (depending on who you ask) a large office park or a shopping centre- both of which are fairly likely to see a decline in footfall compared to 2019. :rolleyes:
You could run a free shuttle bus from Cottingley station to both the office park and the mall for many years before it cost as much as this ridiculous idea... but that wouldn't grab headlines or votes now, would it?
They could always call it Churwell station :lol:
 

YorksLad12

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White rose is one, probably at the expense of cottingley. The other is Thorpe Park, not Thorpe arch. Both have been planned for a long time and will be interesting to see how they develop
Freudian slip (and late-night posting). Now corrected.

This is one of many reasons that White Rose station is an utterly bonkers idea. Let's examine some of the things that don't quite add up about the scheme:
  • It's being promoted as "White Rose Centre" station, but is apparently more aimed at the office complex adjacent to the centre. I can't see how a station could easily serve both without significant and expensive adjustments to allow access to both facilities. Unless it is actually adjacent to the shopping centre and linked by a covered walkway á la Meadowhall Interchange, it shouldn't be named after it. Call it Beeston Office Park if you must have a station, at least that doesn't reek of dishonesty. When Meadowhall opened, it's interesting to note that the powers that be didn't simply rename Brightside, and give it a coat of paint and signposts to the mall.
You could run a free shuttle bus from Cottingley station to both the office park and the mall for years before it cost as much as this ridiculous idea... but that wouldn't grab headlines or votes now, would it?
Cottingley's passengers are mostly peak time, working elsewhere. White Rose's would be mostly peak time, coming from elsewhere. Ideally you'd want both. If I remember correctly though it's being promoted as White Rose to tie in with the business park... which was renamed to connect with the shopping centre. It'll always be Arlington Business Park to me, with the old Systime building (see Edge of Darkness).

I don't think that a shuttle service wouldn't work. Out of the station, over the road, drive down to Elland Road, two busy roundabout junctions, 5 minutes on a good day and worse in the peaks. The shorter route via Millshaw requires crossing the traffic on Elland Road.

Meadowhall... is on the site of the former Wincobank and Meadowhall station, connected to Meadowhall. I think the station naming is valid here!

They could always call it Churwell station :lol:
Actually... rebuilding Churwell would be the ideal solution, it being halfway between Cottingley and White Rose. Apart from being on a bridge over an A road ;)
 

61653 HTAFC

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Freudian slip (and late-night posting). Now corrected.


Cottingley's passengers are mostly peak time, working elsewhere. White Rose's would be mostly peak time, coming from elsewhere. Ideally you'd want both. If I remember correctly though it's being promoted as White Rose to tie in with the business park... which was renamed to connect with the shopping centre. It'll always be Arlington Business Park to me, with the old Systime building (see Edge of Darkness).

I don't think that a shuttle service wouldn't work. Out of the station, over the road, drive down to Elland Road, two busy roundabout junctions, 5 minutes on a good day and worse in the peaks. The shorter route via Millshaw requires crossing the traffic on Elland Road.

Meadowhall... is on the site of the former Wincobank and Meadowhall station, connected to Meadowhall. I think the station naming is valid here!


Actually... rebuilding Churwell would be the ideal solution, it being halfway between Cottingley and White Rose. Apart from being on a bridge over an A road ;)
My point about Meadowhall was that it was built in the most appropriate and convenient location to serve the eponymous mall and with a covered bridge for access, rather than 200yards down the line with a poorly-signposted trek through a car park. The equivalent of what is being promoted here would be if, instead of building Meadowhall Interchange where they did, BR had just opted to rename Brightside to "Meadowhall Shopping Centre" and call it a day.

I'm not sure how saying that most of Cottingley's usage is in the peaks negates my point about those residents who bought their houses because of the station right next door being inconvenienced though. Surely that can be said of most stations, that's why we call it a peak.

And on the shuttle bus idea, I agree the traffic would be an issue but that can be mitigated by things like signal priority measures for buses. I certainly wouldn't go straight to spending eight figures on a station before at least trialling a lower cost option that wouldn't inconvenience hundreds of residents as a side-effect.
 
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YorksLad12

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My point about Meadowhall was that it was built in the most appropriate and convenient location to serve the eponymous mall and with a covered bridge for access, rather than 200yards down the line with a poorly-signposted trek through a car park. The equivalent of what is being promoted here would be if, instead of building Meadowhall Interchange where they did, BR had just opted to rename Brightside to "Meadowhall Shopping Centre" and call it a day.
Ah - get you now.
 

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Lets hope people don't make the Abbey Road mistake with that one. a single from Thorpe Park To Chertsey would be quite expensive and time consuming!

That seems a very poor choice of name, unless they suffix it in the ticketing system as Thorpe Park (Leeds) or somesuch. Brown Moor is what the OS map calls the area...
 

sjm77

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I can possibly see Cottingley retained for a while, though I expect it’ll either only get services in the morning peak, with services not calling White Rose, or either one of the TPE locals or Northerns will stop at one or the other.
So we have a Sankey/Warrington West debacle all over again!
As for Thorpe Park well it's the last thing that congested 2 track section needs. Yes 4 tracking is discussed on here but its years away lets be honest, there are not any detailed plans for this such as we have for the Huddersfield to Dewsbury section.
 

Llandudno

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I used Cottingley station a couple of years ago to attend a meeting in the Business Park, it was about a 15 minute walk downhill through a not too salubrious the housing estate.

The train service is mainly hourly off peak so when the meeting had finished, rather than walk uphill to the station and wait about 45 minutes on a bleak platform (it was February!), I waited 30+ minutes for the bus to Leeds City Centre at a bus stop with no shelter. The buses were supposed to run every 10 minutes, I should really have known better as the route was operated by First!
 

YorksLad12

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I used Cottingley station a couple of years ago to attend a meeting in the Business Park, it was about a 15 minute walk downhill through a not too salubrious the housing estate.

The train service is mainly hourly off peak so when the meeting had finished, rather than walk uphill to the station and wait about 45 minutes on a bleak platform (it was February!), I waited 30+ minutes for the bus to Leeds City Centre at a bus stop with no shelter. The buses were supposed to run every 10 minutes, I should really have known better as the route was operated by First!
Now, if you'd asked a local we'd have told you to walk down to Neville Street and get one of the Arriva services to the White Rose Centre; and to get off at Bridgewater Place and use the station's Southern Entrance on the way back (as the Arriva services don't stop at the station itself on the way in).

But it does illustrate the scale of the un-joined-up-ness of local transport that a £10m-plus station is "the solution" here.
 

woody505

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Thorpe park makes sence there's a leisure complex allready and loads of houses going up around it but locals fear it'll be the closure of East garforth to make room in time table for it. The station id really want in dream world for Leeds is elland road park way perfect for the park way users and even better for match days. Simmirlar to howich parkway for Bolton fc
 

leedslad82

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Thorpe park makes sence there's a leisure complex allready and loads of houses going up around it but locals fear it'll be the closure of East garforth to make room in time table for it. The station id really want in dream world for Leeds is elland road park way perfect for the park way users and even better for match days. Simmirlar to howich parkway for Bolton fc
Definitely dream world. At the moment the park n ride bus for elland road has spare capacity so no need for a rail station. Ideally a station on the ring road by Rodley on the line towards shipley if built as loops would be a better idea as a park n ride option
 

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Thorpe park makes sence there's a leisure complex allready and loads of houses going up around it but locals fear it'll be the closure of East garforth to make room in time table for it. The station id really want in dream world for Leeds is elland road park way perfect for the park way users and even better for match days. Simmirlar to howich parkway for Bolton fc
Without getting too far into the weeds, a suggestion that comes up a lot on here is to merge the two Garforth stations as part of the Trans-Pennine route upgrade.

A station at Elland Road wouldn't be a terrible idea, particularly post-HS2:2b with fewer long-distance high-speed services using the line to Wakefield Westgate. If it was just for football traffic I'm not sure it'd be viable- but with the park&ride it could be popular all week if given 4tph+.
 

30907

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Definitely dream world. At the moment the park n ride bus for elland road has spare capacity so no need for a rail station. Ideally a station on the ring road by Rodley on the line towards shipley if built as loops would be a better idea as a park n ride option
Apart from the fact that it serves a completely different catchment :)
 

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Without getting too far into the weeds, a suggestion that comes up a lot on here is to merge the two Garforth stations as part of the Trans-Pennine route upgrade.

A station at Elland Road wouldn't be a terrible idea, particularly post-HS2:2b with fewer long-distance high-speed services using the line to Wakefield Westgate. If it was just for football traffic I'm not sure it'd be viable- but with the park&ride it could be popular all week if given 4tph+.
The problem with an Elland Rd station would be where the passengers come from - most of Leeds population lies to the north of the city centre, and Elland Rd wouldn’t serve that. Changing at Leeds would be inconvenient and time consuming for most, when they could just hop on the shuttle bus instead. Plus stations serving football grounds can bring very heavy loadings on match days that stock/platforms can’t handle and will inconvenience passengers on the route wanting to go elsewhere - one of the reasons why we’re not getting an Ashton Gate station here in Bristol when the Portishead line reopens (I believe there were objections from the police) - annoying when there are a lot of homes and businesses nearby.
 

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The problem with an Elland Rd station would be where the passengers come from - most of Leeds population lies to the north of the city centre, and Elland Rd wouldn’t serve that. Changing at Leeds would be inconvenient and time consuming for most, when they could just hop on the shuttle bus instead. Plus stations serving football grounds can bring very heavy loadings on match days that stock/platforms can’t handle and will inconvenience passengers on the route wanting to go elsewhere - one of the reasons why we’re not getting an Ashton Gate station here in Bristol when the Portishead line reopens (I believe there were objections from the police) - annoying when there are a lot of homes and businesses nearby.
Certainly crowds can be a safety issue as you say, but it is possible to design a station to handle those volumes safely: for example while MUFC Halt (or whatever it's official name was) has been forced to close, that doesn't seem to be an issue with The Hawthorns, or even with Bordesley (which isn't exactly a modern design, but gets fairly crowded after Birmingham games). As you say, much of Leeds United's fanbase comes from parts of the city where the train wouldn't be the best option (or have flown into Yeadon from Scandinavia ;) )- so you aren't going to have 30,000 people all trying to catch the train after the game- it'd be more like 3,000 which is more manageable.

If I can remember so far back as to when I made my post, my point was that a station there could work because it would still have use on the five or six days a week (and through close-season) that there isn't a game on, because of the Park and Ride potential. Not that loads of money should be spent on a station that only gets used on 20-odd days a year.

As a Huddersfield supporter I should really be discouraging people from going to that Den of Iniquity next to the M621, but if they insist on going there I'd rather more of them used public transport!
 

Ianno87

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Certainly crowds can be a safety issue as you say, but it is possible to design a station to handle those volumes safely: for example while MUFC Halt (or whatever it's official name was) has been forced to close, that doesn't seem to be an issue with The Hawthorns, or even with Bordesley (which isn't exactly a modern design, but gets fairly crowded after Birmingham games). As you say, much of Leeds United's fanbase comes from parts of the city where the train wouldn't be the best option (or have flown into Yeadon from Scandinavia ;) )- so you aren't going to have 30,000 people all trying to catch the train after the game- it'd be more like 3,000 which is more manageable.

If I can remember so far back as to when I made my post, my point was that a station there could work because it would still have use on the five or six days a week (and through close-season) that there isn't a game on, because of the Park and Ride potential. Not that loads of money should be spent on a station that only gets used on 20-odd days a year.

As a Huddersfield supporter I should really be discouraging people from going to that Den of Iniquity next to the M621, but if they insist on going there I'd rather more of them used public transport!

MUFC's closure wasn't crowd-related per-se, it was the fact that arriving passengers were effectively being dumped directly into the security cordon around the ground.

You can see modern stations designed to handle crowds from events have space for queuing systems to be implemented (e.g. Coventry Arena, Horwich Parkway, Falmer, etc.)
 

sjm77

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Certainly crowds can be a safety issue as you say, but it is possible to design a station to handle those volumes safely: for example while MUFC Halt (or whatever it's official name was) has been forced to close

MUFC's closure wasn't crowd-related per-se, it was the fact that arriving passengers were effectively being dumped directly into the security cordon around the ground

Also there are better alternatives, multiple trams stops on different lines with a 6 minute frequency (starting again on Monday 5th July) to many different parts of the city, rather than just 2 trains from MUFC halt per match to Picc!
 
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