New railcard

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by FGWman, 13 Aug 2011.

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  1. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

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    Intrestingly the rail minister is unaware of this new railcard, so I assume its just an ATOC thing with no involvement from the DFT.
     
  2. firespire

    firespire Member

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    The train companies must want to attract pairs of people to use trains. Pairs of people probably find the coach or the car a better value option. I think I would be inclined to take the cheaper coach option if I was sitting with someone I knew.
     
  3. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    We usually prefer the train when travelling together. It's less hassle than driving, as well as being usually faster, more frequent and more comfortable than a coach.

    When we choose to use a bus or coach, it is usually because either no trains ervice will ge tus there, or because the bus/coach is considerably cheaper.

    It's the latter point that would ensure that we used the two together railcard to travel by train more often. Unfortunately, we ar enot supposed to do this as we live outside the trial area.
     
  4. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    No surprise there. Clueless!
     
  5. Old Timer

    Old Timer Established Member

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    I would expect the average "man in the street" would place a simple enough interpretation on the phrase "live in one of the named postcodes" . There is no dubiety you either do or you dont.

    From the various dictionaries, "live" equates to "reside" which is defined as To live in a place permanently or for an extended period.

    It is amazing the interpretations people like to propound when the wording doesn't suit them.
     
  6. snail

    snail Established Member

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    That still incurs extra costs, which would need to be budgeted for. One of the aims of the trial is to assess demand, much easier to do if you restrict the initial sales area.
     
  7. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

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    There are things which do not suit me which I accept are that way for a good reason - e.g. disabled parking spaces, being ineligible for local resident discounts on certain council subsidised stuff (leisure centres, b-line cards etc.)

    There are things which do not suit me which I cannot think of a good reason for - this is a pretty good example.

    If Centro or whoever were subsidising this, I'd see the point in limiting it to the West Midlands. In fact, if there were any reason other than 'that's the area they've chosen', I'd probably accept it.
     
  8. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    As a further example. My sister had a mail shot offering £3 off £30 shopping at Sainsbury's As she was going away on holiday she gave it to me. I am not getting sleepless nights in case the police come knocking on my door at four in the morning!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 25 Sep 2011
  9. snail

    snail Established Member

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    Why don't you just travel on Child tickets then? That's an arbitary restriction based on age.

    I fancy applying for a Senior Railcard. Anyone got a birth certificate I can borrow? :roll:
     
  10. firespire

    firespire Member

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    I suspect a few people in your situation may choose one Two together railcard for £28 rather than pay for two railcards if they mostly travel together.

    Giving half fare child tickets isn't arbitrary, the reason behind it is to make it affordable for themselves/parents to buy the tickets, it is a standard public transport practice.

    A Senior Railcard is a discount to encourage over 60's to use trains, usage decreases in this age group. Nothing arbitrary, about that.

    The purpose of the two together rail card to get pair of people to use they train instead of other transport. I can't see a definable reason why they have chosen to trial it in an area of the West Midlands rather than say an area of the East Midlands, therefore by definition their choice is an arbitrary one.

    Too true.
    Where are the ethics in photographing people claiming they are genuine Walsall residents and writing fake testimonials about their use of the card before the scheme is launched.

    Where are the ethics in making up savings amounts without telling people how they came to the figures. Where are the ethics in telling people if they hand over £28 they will also be entitled to "Brilliant discounts on restaurants" but hiding somewhere else that to obtain the restaurant discounts people have to fork out another £24.95 to join another scheme.
    [​IMG]

    Where is the ethics is using statements on the printed literature and the website like
    http://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk/what-do-you-get/features

    then letting people find out later all doesn't mean all because there is a secondary exclusion section allowing each train company to decide which of their tickets the discount can be applied to.
     
    Last edited: 25 Sep 2011
  11. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

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    As stated above those are not examples of arbitrary restrictions.

    Like I've said, if you can tell me you haven't knowingly broken a rule and felt fine about it I'd be sure you were lying.

    Suddenly because we're talking about the railways we're under this bizarre compulsion to follow arbitrary restrictions without question at all times.
     
  12. snail

    snail Established Member

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    The age thresholds are entirely arbitrary. Why is the age limit 16? Why do YP railcards cover people to the age of 25? Why is the Senior Railcard 60 and not 65?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    What Old Timer said. Enjoy justifying your decision 'because everyone else does it'. Just ignore the last line of the T&Cs:

    "Fraudulent use of the Railcards and Railcard discounted tickets may lead to criminal prosecution."
     
  13. Old Timer

    Old Timer Established Member

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    Arbitrary on whose definition ? Yours ?

    And what places you above all others to decide what rule/law is to be followed and what is to be ignored By what divine right have you been appointed ?

    As for finding it offensive to suggest you park in disablked spaces, frankly you strike me as precisely the type of person to do so, after all you say yourself "some rules are made to be broken" aren/t they ?

    The attitude and disdain displayed here to terms and conditions of the Railcard and the responses to comparisons are typical of the sort of response - when there is an intelligible response - from someone parking in a pick up or other restricted area/parking bay.

    We meet people such as you everyday who think that they are beyond the rules that apply to the rest of us, whether on the road, in car parks, in shops, on the street.

    The various thieves who rioted, and used the riots as an excuse to thieve, had similar defences to yours.


    By buying a ticket or procuring a Railcard you legally agree to be bound by those conditions.

    No-one is forcing you to use the Railways, no-one is holding a gun to your head demanding you buy a ticket.

    If you do not like the conditions you are free to use numerous other forms of transport.

    Anyway furtherance of this debate is pointless we do not live in a totalitarian society so there are few to stop you doing as you wish, but just remember once we all start ignoring the rules that we dont like, then anarchy ultimately rules.

    Using your belief system, maybe I shall start parking in child spaces as I do not see why they should get special dispensation to me, after all I probably spend more than they do :)
     
    Last edited: 25 Sep 2011
  14. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

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    How can you say that 16 is an arbitrary age - it's the compulsory school leaving age!!

    The 16-25 Railcard is designed to get young people on to trains. Has to end somewhere, and 25-27 seems as logical a place as any.

    Are you saying the idea of encouraging people to travel together is only applicable to the West Midlands!?

    I think you should do a Google definition on the term arbitrary.

    As for criminal prosecution - don't make me laugh. If you genuinely think the CPS would choose to press charges on this... the mere suggestion is ridiculous
    You've read the first line of my post and ignored the rest.

    Believing some rules are meant to be broken does not mean I believe rules are made to be broken. The addition of the word 'some' is key. Taking a disabled parking space illegitimately is a selfish act, fundamentally. Ordering a Railcard ignoring one arbitrary restriction which is not fundamental to the spirit of the card is not a comparable act, and I find such a comparison offensive.

    What I can say with a great degree of certainty is that nobody lives their life observing every rule and condition they are supposed to, and on that basis I don't see why you're so inclined to argue as though you're that mythical perfect person.
     
  15. snail

    snail Established Member

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    Google? Now I know you're joking.
     
  16. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    Exactly. I doubt anyone who subscribes to this forum has never broken a rule or term (see my posting about a Sainsbury's voucher).

    I also find that comparing the summer rioters to what is going on here laughable!
     
  17. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    I do wonder at some of the attitudes I see on this forum from time to time!
     
  18. Old Timer

    Old Timer Established Member

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    You really do not get it at all do you :roll: :roll:

    It must be so satisfying to be the one who is able to determine what rules should and shouldn't apply.. In the case of the Railcard it is not for you to decide the basis or terms of issue, it is for the issuer.

    They have decided to limit the area where they are sold. The reason is of no consequence or concern to you whatsoever.

    However as i said before this is a pointless debate you clearly believe that you only need follow rules or criteria that YOU feel you should, and to hell with the rest of us in effect.
     
  19. nedchester

    nedchester Established Member

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    But come on Old Timer tell us you've never "bent" the rules a bit? Is my Sainsbury's voucher another example of the deterioration of UK society comparable to that that caused last summers riots?

    If you believe that then I am afraid it does lose you some credibility!
     
  20. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    People, please! Recent posts on this thread have absolutely nothing to do with the Two Together railcard and must therefore be considered off-topic. It is particularly annoying to be interested in the topic of a thread and keep getting told there are new posts, only to find that it's a private argument between a few posters about personal views on society. That discussion could be better had via PM, surely?

    Please can we keep this thread for legitimate discussion on the Two Together Railcard?

    TIA.
     
  21. Furrball

    Furrball Member

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    I see East Coast are still to update their site to reflect this railcard
     
  22. lyesbkz

    lyesbkz Member

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    Out of interest, did anybody ever receive an official response from the ASA regarding that 'quotation' which used to be on the Two Together website?
     
  23. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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  24. island

    island Established Member

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    I did, saying it was resolved informally.
     
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