New S7 Underground stock

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you; is the full diagram anywhere on here please? Can't seem to find it...

 

[Domh245]

I have had a look through the WTT, and the Weekday timings for train 753 are as such when running to west ham, and when running to Plaistow, these timings are the same, there is just a shorter turn around at Plaistow (I think)

Train 753 (Run as Required):

1014 Olympia > 1021 Earls Court > 1103 West Ham
1120 West Ham > 1200 Earls Court > 1203 Olympia
1214 Olympia > 1221 Earls Court > 1303 West Ham
1320 West Ham > 1400 Earls Court > 1403 Olympia
1414 Olympia > 1421 Earls Court > 1503 West Ham
1520 West Ham > 1600 Earls Court > 1603 Olympia > Lille Bridge

1908 Olympia > 1912 Earls Court > 1954 West Ham
2020 West Ham > 2100 Earls Court > 2103 Olympia
2114 Olympia > 2121 Earls Court > 2203 West Ham
2220 West Ham > 2259 Earls Court > 2302 Olympia > Lille Bridge


If you want to look up the times for the weekends, look at this pdf: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/162759/response/398310/attach/3/Dist143.pdf (use the search function to find "753" - it's a lot quicker than looking manually!)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you.

 

[simple simon]

Not available at weekends yet.

T753 occasionally now operates an earlier working M-F; 0535 Olympia-Plaistow, 0635 Plaistow-Olympia.

Thanks.

Well as its still not running at weekends so I wont try to see it!

Simon

 

[Dstock7080]

Driver training runs to Wimbledon are now available 'as required' M-F:
T753
0936 Hst3 0941
1002½ WIM 1015½
1037½ HSt3 1051
1112 WIM 1125½
1147½ HSt3 1201½
1207 OLY to Plaistow.

One train on 8/2 was formed 21317/18 running Wimbledon-Edgware Rd 1250-1930.
As from 10/2 one train will be formed S7, with a further 3 from 23/2.
T71 21347/48 running as T71 today.

 

[Dstock7080]

S7s have today officially taken on 3 District Line (Wimbledon-Edgware Road) workings, with a 4th to be added later today.

Just 4 daily C Stock workings remain.

 

[317 forever]

I rode an S7 for the first time on the H&C Line today, from King's Cross to Mile End. As they have spread so quickly over the winter, I know to anticipate them being in regular service. I notice they have diagrams of the H&C/ Circle and District (including Wimbledon-Edgware Road) services next to eachother. This points to them being used on all these lines interchangeably.

By the way, the reason I did not use the term Wimbleware is because it sounds like the name of a computer virus!

 

[Nym]

I rode an S7 for the first time on the H&C Line today, from King's Cross to Mile End. As they have spread so quickly over the winter, I know to anticipate them being in regular service. I notice they have diagrams of the H&C/ Circle and District (including Wimbledon-Edgware Road) services next to eachother. This points to them being used on all these lines interchangeably.

By the way, the reason I did not use the term Wimbleware is because it sounds like the name of a computer virus!

That's the idea, it is ment to be to reduce the number of maintenance facilities and reduce some current depots to nothing really more than covered sidings.

(Although LU does seem to be a tad short on stabling at the moment for S Stock)

 

[Manchester77]

Are the S7s able to use the triangle and farringdon sidings or are they too long?

 

[ModernRailways]

(Although LU does seem to be a tad short on stabling at the moment for S Stock)

A tad short? More like, they have next to no space at all. Isn't that the main reason a few C Stocks were transferred up to Neasden and another set of sidings on the Met so that the S Stocks could be stabled at the depots they will be based at.

 

[Nym]

Are the S7s able to use the triangle and farringdon sidings or are they too long?

Yes, they can use Triangle Sidings but not Farringdon. The end state track layout includes a new layout for Farringdon though.

A tad short? More like, they have next to no space at all. Isn't that the main reason a few C Stocks were transferred up to Neasden and another set of sidings on the Met so that the S Stocks could be stabled at the depots they will be based at.

C Stock is going to Neasden so it can be scrapped out of Northfeilds Sidings, or Ealing Common for the LTM depot where road access is available. Neasden isn't exactly brimming with space at the moment, especially with 20 Jubilee Line trains stabling overnight all the time, plans may be afoot to extend Stanmore sidings.

I know of S7s being stored at (other than Neasden, Hammersmith and Barking);

Triangle Sidings
Lillie Bridge Depot
Wembley Park Sidings
Edgware Road Siding
and
Ealing Common Remote Roads (I beleive this to be for crew training).

and the more unusual...

Ruislip Depot
Northfeilds Depot

Not yet known any in South Harrow Sidings, but anything put in there tends to come out technicolour so it's not favoured.

May be some other places I'm not aware of...?

 

[Manchester77]

Yes, they can use Triangle Sidings but not Farringdon. The end state track layout includes a new layout for Farringdon though.

Cheers, has work begun at Farringdon or will it wait until a later date? Has there been any formal word on the use of the city widened lines for use as sidings, I remember reading on London Recconections that they could be used but I don't know if there has been any advance on this. Would be good if they're able to use them since it would be a waste if you've got them there and there is a shortage.

Are any S7s stabled in the West Ham siding or the Plaistow bay or is it not practice?

 

[Dstock7080]

Currently S7s are only being stored at Ruislip and Neasden.
Wembley Park, Barking, Lillie Bridge, Edgware Road, Triangle are all service trains and not for storage.

Northfields is no longer being used. The one at Ealing Common (now departed) was for infrastructure testing to Ealing and Richmond.

West Ham and Plaistow are service reversing locations and are not being used for storing.

The work on the additional Widened Lines stabling was due under the Bombardier contract, now cancelled.

 

[Nym]

The work on the additional Widened Lines stabling was due under the Bombardier contract, now cancelled.

Thanks, didn't know it had departed from Ealing Common, not been in that area for a while.

And when I was talking to the guys designing the end state track layout there have been no changes to what the intentions are. The use of the old City Widended Lines is still very much on the cards (Version 12 of the drawing).

Places like Harrow on the Hill and Wembley Park could well se changes given by opertinities raised from the new ATC contract.

For example, extending the Jubilee Line up to Harrow on the Hill would need some changes at Wembley Park. Could well be on the cards if Thalys win the contract (although I dowbt the whole SSL network could be done with Thalys's current LUL offering of TBTC / S40).

If it where to go to Avensys / Siemens though, the scope could be somewhat different, who knows what will happen...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The highest numbered unit I have had for haulage now is 21409/10.

 

[mainframe444]

The highest numbered unit I have had for haulage now is 21409/10.

Highest numbered unit in London is currently T115 (21413/4)

Train 116 (21415/6) is scheduled to leave Old Dalby to London next Monday.

There will then be a lull in deliveries into London until May.

Trains will continue to be delivered from Derby to Old Dalby for commissioning/storage.

The missing train in London is T81, (21345/6), this was to have been the test train for Bombardiers ATC project, which has been cancelled. The train needs to be demodified from its ATC configuration before it leaves Old Dalby for London.

Hope this is of interest.

MF

 

[spinba11]

Something I don't get, 53 S7s are needed for the H&C&C lines, taking into account the 7 missing trains (3x S7+1 3x S6 and 21345/6) the 53rd train will be 21420/1 which means they are 5 trains short, how can the lines be all S7 with not enough train?

 

[joeykins82]

Are they almost finished modifying the S8s? If so that releases the 6 S7s.

 

[Dstock7080]

Something I don't get, 53 S7s are needed for the H&C&C lines, taking into account the 7 missing trains (3x S7+1 3x S6 and 21345/6) the 53rd train will be 21420/1 which means they are 5 trains short, how can the lines be all S7 with not enough train?

Not sure where you're getting 53 trains for H&C/Circle, the maximum requirement for service, both at present and from 18 May, is 39 trains.

Are they almost finished modifying the S8s? If so that releases the 6 S7s.

Just 6 more to go.

 

[joeykins82]

I guess 53 refers to the number of C stock trains and spinba11 wasn't explicit about including the Edgware Rd-Wimbledon services in his post

 

[spinba11]

Look where it says new trains.

http://www.beta.tfl.gov.uk/travel-i...rojects/tube-improvement/hammersmith-and-city

 

[Whistlekiller]

Look where it says new trains.

http://www.beta.tfl.gov.uk/travel-i...rojects/tube-improvement/hammersmith-and-city

As a fleet, that probably includes the Edgware Road - Wimbledon trains (8?) plus some spares. I doubt the maximum service requirement (which is what Dstock was on about) would leave no spares available in case of a breakdown so the figures on the link are probably correct, if a little confusing.

Rich'

 

[joeykins82]

Hmm strange. There are/were 46 C stock trains in total (source: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/londonunderground/rollingstock/1616.aspx); I can't see all 53 of the first wave of S7s being used just for the Circle/H&C services at least until the SSR signalling upgrade is done, and certainly not without eliminating the C stock trains. I can only assume TfL group Edgware Rd-Wimbledon in with the Circle/H&C lines because they share stock, and it's an oversight in the article.

 

[Dstock7080]

The District will be nominally getting 80 S7s, currently running a 68 train service using 75 D Stocks.
Certainly the "53 trains" and "80 trains" quoted is for service requirements after the SSR Upgrade is completed.

spinba11 was assuming 53 Circle/H&C trains are required now, which is not the case, only a maximum of 39 are needed. You could operate the current Circle/H&C/District maximum service with 107 trains (with 0 spare), although 133 S7s have been ordered.

 

[simple simon]

Well they need extra trains because eventually some won't be available for service since they will be undergoing regular maintenance.

There may also be extra trains to allow for the Watford Junction service.

btw, I hope its acceptable to mention this here, its a film comparing the S7 and S8 trains.

http://youtu.be/7z-zX6yUQow

Simon

 

[Nym]

Croxley Rail Link without timetable changes needs two additional S8s, with the expected timetable improvments this jumps to an additional nine S8s if memory serves correctly.

Post ATP the met line is looking at 28tph in the peaks, proberbly 24tph off peak...

I can see more S8s being ordered in the near future for this and other service improvments post ATP, whatever the ATP system is...

And on the latter, it could still be anything...

 

[GodAtum]

how fire safe is this as it has no doors between carriages?

 

[ModernRailways]

how fire safe is this as it has no doors between carriages?

They're probably a lot more fire safe than their predecessors as the materials are likely to be a lot more fire resistant. A fire on the old stock would have spread just as much as it will now if not worse.

I wouldn't mind betting that LUL took this into account too when ordering.

 

[Nym]

They're probably a lot more fire safe than their predecessors as the materials are likely to be a lot more fire resistant. A fire on the old stock would have spread just as much as it will now if not worse.

I wouldn't mind betting that LUL took this into account too when ordering.

But asbesdos doesn't burn

 

[Class377/5]

how fire safe is this as it has no doors between carriages?

I'm not sure about the S stock but the Desiro City is designed to contain the fire in one carriage and vent the smoke through the air con in that carriage (through the roof) to provide as long as possible for passengers to escape.