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New S7 Underground stock

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Dstock7080

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Short video of the stock on pre delivery test this week (4th December) at SERCO Rail test Old Dalby test track. The stock is stabled in the extensive former Asfordby coal mine site and then taken up each day to the electrified 4 rail scetion at Old Dalby
Bizzare seing all the brightly painted LU stock sitting in the the green Leicestershire countryside
Odd that's an 8-car, so either S8 21001/02 redelivery or S7+1 21327/28.
 
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Manchester77

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When the S7s start on the circle will they do a preview service like they've done on the Hammersmith and metropolitan or will they just enter front line service straight away???
I'd marine they will on the district but I'm unsure about the circle partly because I don't see how they'd do it...
 

causton

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When the S7s start on the circle will they do a preview service like they've done on the Hammersmith and metropolitan or will they just enter front line service straight away???
I'd marine they will on the district but I'm unsure about the circle partly because I don't see how they'd do it...

Surely you could see the Hammersmith - Moorgate services as a preview of the Circle? ;)

...either there would be a seperate S7 doing the lower half of the Circle only (Tower Hill - Edgware Road via Victoria?) as a 'District' to test out the Circle line part, or just one train of S stock would run the whole route inbetween C stocks I'm guessing :)
 

Class377/5

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Preview service was a driver training excerise and will continue in the new timetable too.
 

Dstock7080

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Any ideas when we can see it back on its way to Derby?

:)
S7s should not be returning, under the current programme.


When the S7s start on the circle will they do a preview service like they've done on the Hammersmith and metropolitan or will they just enter front line service straight away???
I'd marine they will on the district but I'm unsure about the circle partly because I don't see how they'd do it...
There will be no preview service, they should just start running around the Circle, as from the May timetable change.
 

jon0844

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S7s should not be returning, under the current programme.

It was only a joke at the expense of Bombardier, and hopefully there won't be any further issues of such a serious nature to require them to go back.

I must say that, issues aside (and I bet there will be more), they're wonderful trains and I can't wait for all the C-stock to go and to use these in the summer, without feeling like I'm stuck in a greenhouse.

Joe Public can't fail to be impressed by them, so they will do plenty of good for the reputation of London and LUL.
 

Dstock7080

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What was noticable yesterday was riding the new LO link on a 378 and changing to the S7 at Whitechapel, how so very different the train interiors are. From the cramped, low windows - some with fixed openers, some with destination equipment obsuring, on the 378 - to the tall unobstructed windows on S Stock, which you can quite easily stand by the doors and look out.
 

jopsuk

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As I understand it, the current plan is that the H&C will go entirely S7 before they start to introduce them to Circle services, yes? And then following that it'll be the District- presumbaly starting with "Wimbleware" service to allow full withdrawl of the C-Stock?
 

Class377/5

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As I understand it, the current plan is that the H&C will go entirely S7 before they start to introduce them to Circle services, yes? And then following that it'll be the District- presumbaly starting with "Wimbleware" service to allow full withdrawl of the C-Stock?

Someone I'd an FOI act request Dated 14/05/2012, and got this answer..

Thank you for your email received by Transport for London (TfL) on 14 May 2012 asking for information about the new rolling stock on the District
line, the Circle line, and the Hammersmith and City line.

There will be a preview service of 1 S stock train running on the
Hammersmith & City line between Hammersmith and Moorgate before the
Olympics. We envisage this will be in early July 2012. Roll-out to the
remainder of the Hammersmith & Circle service; Hammersmith to Barking,
will start in December 2012.

The District Line; Wimbledon to Edgware Road branch, will begin to see
introduction of S7’s in August 2013. The trunk District line service from
Upminster and the branches to Ealing Broadway and Richmond will begin to
migrate to S7’s in the summer of 2014. The S7’s are likely to be
introduced at the same rate as we introduced the S8’s on the Metropolitan
Line; replacing the A stocks at one or two per week.
 

moogal

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Caught my first S7 H&C this evening from Kings Cross to Bow Road. Lots of people looking bemused on the platform as it came in, stepping on and looking around nervously in case they'd made a mistake and got on a Met by mistake.

Overall pretty impressed - seemed very spacious with more seating than the C stock, albeit with fewer doors which made loading slower when people did their usual thing of standing around them rather than moving down.

Driver was having a few positioning issues on platforms (we pulled in to Mile End, stopped, people on the platform went for the doors, then we moved on about 6ft) and some pretty sharp braking, but other than that a nice smooth quiet ride.
 

tsr

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Caught my first S7 H&C this evening from Kings Cross to Bow Road. Lots of people looking bemused on the platform as it came in, stepping on and looking around nervously in case they'd made a mistake and got on a Met by mistake.

Overall pretty impressed - seemed very spacious with more seating than the C stock, albeit with fewer doors which made loading slower when people did their usual thing of standing around them rather than moving down.

Driver was having a few positioning issues on platforms (we pulled in to Mile End, stopped, people on the platform went for the doors, then we moved on about 6ft) and some pretty sharp braking, but other than that a nice smooth quiet ride.

The number of doors doesn't seem too much of a problem on the Met, but I guess those lines served by C-Stock are likely to attract a more intense rate of passenger entry and exit throughout a greater distance of line, so I can foresee this being a slight problem. Passengers do seem to be quite happy with the stock, and I haven't really noticed much confusion.

Driver positioning is improving, according to my limited observations, but there have been a number of noticeable braking action flaws and so on (as you describe) during their training and in the time taken for them get used to the stock. It does seem as if they are surprised by the braking performance - in a good way - which would be more than understandable. However, like most Electrostars and Capitalstars, I am sure S7s and S8s will become more driver-friendly through a little wear to the braking system and perhaps some software and mechanical tweaks.

Overall, I am impressed by the S7s and S8s from a passenger comfort point of view. I would like to see a layout similar to that of D-Stock trains on the S7s due to serve longer Upminster routes, but this isn't likely and that doesn't affect my overall opinions too much anyway. I would also like to see the SDO warning lights in the saloon illuminated as soon as the announcements for the next station are played, whereas they currently do not seem to be. The door-opening sound is rather penetrating (some ideas borrowed from 458s?) and perhaps that could be toned down. Also, there do seem to be issues with litter accumulating under the seats (prime luggage space, however!) and on the little flat metal areas between their fabric covers. I do also have some concerns about the potential lack of power (down to lower traction current voltages supplied than what is ideal) if icy/leafy rails rear their ugly heads - obviously only a line infrastructure upgrade, as planned, will be able to rectify this.
 

mainframe444

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Driver was having a few positioning issues on platforms (we pulled in to Mile End, stopped, people on the platform went for the doors, then we moved on about 6ft) and some pretty sharp braking, but other than that a nice smooth quiet ride.


The stock has to stop within 1 metre of the stop point or the driver is unable to release the doors......
 

Class377/5

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I would also like to see the SDO warning lights in the saloon illuminated as soon as the announcements for the next station are played, whereas they currently do not seem to be.

Not going to happen. Train won't fully know which doors can open until its come to a stop. SDO works by allowing oops to open in manner it's safe according to the programme. So until a train stops it cannot know what doors it can open.
 

spinba11

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But the DVA tells us at the station before that some of the doors won't open at the next station.
 

Class377/5

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But the DVA tells us at the station before that some of the doors won't open at the next station.

Yes because it goes off the expected doors open. The SDO is a safety critical part of the train and is used when a train has stopped. Example of this is if there's a problem only only the front four cars are in the station, SDO will open them but the DVA won't know this.

DVA is just pre-programmed for normal conditions and isn't linked to the SDO at all.
 

jon0844

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I didn't think they'd be linked as it would be dangerous if the details of the route were ever set wrong. It's easy to add in text/speech to say something before the next station - but it would never control any form of safety system.
 

spinba11

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Yes because it goes off the expected doors open. The SDO is a safety critical part of the train and is used when a train has stopped. Example of this is if there's a problem only only the front four cars are in the station, SDO will open them but the DVA won't know this.

DVA is just pre-programmed for normal conditions and isn't linked to the SDO at all.

That's what I was thinking.
 

mainframe444

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Not going to happen. Train won't fully know which doors can open until its come to a stop. SDO works by allowing oops to open in manner it's safe according to the programme. So until a train stops it cannot know what doors it can open.

The train has to be fully into the platform and within 1 metre of the stopping point. There is a trackside beacon that the train detects, this tells the train that it can enable the driver to release the doors, and also if any doors should be disabled.
 

tsr

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So why can't the saloon warning lights above the doors come on according to the CIS/DVA? Surely this would provide enhanced information, allowing passengers to move down the train in a greater amount of time. If the lights did not illuminate prior to an SDO platform due to a DVA fault, the SDO could activate them when possible (as now); if the lights illuminated incorrectly when there was no need for them to, they could be automatically turned off when the doors all opened as usual? Perhaps when the SDO ties in with the CIS/DVA, correctly activated lights could become brighter or could strobe at a suitable rate, in order to enhance the message.
 

Class377/5

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The train has to be fully into the platform and within 1 metre of the stopping point. There is a trackside beacon that the train detects, this tells the train that it can enable the driver to release the doors, and also if any doors should be disabled.

Only for normal stopping. The SDO Bombardier provides can still work without being at the stop mark. After all if there was only one beacon and it failed you'd not be able to call. In your example you'd not be able to evacutate a Tain without release ll doors. SDO can allow multiple door openings at different places in the platform to allow controlled safe exiting in emergency situations.

So why can't the saloon warning lights above the doors come on according to the CIS/DVA? Surely this would provide enhanced information, allowing passengers to move down the train in a greater amount of time. If the lights did not illuminate prior to an SDO platform due to a DVA fault, the SDO could activate them when possible (as now); if the lights illuminated incorrectly when there was no need for them to, they could be automatically turned off when the doors all opened as usual? Perhaps when the SDO ties in with the CIS/DVA, correctly activated lights could become brighter or could strobe at a suitable rate, in order to enhance the message.

Because SDO isn't connected to the CIS and never will be. The door lights only active once in position and trains stopped, prior to this the SDO hasn't kicked in.
 
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12CSVT

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21323 + 21324 (with coach 25384 inserted into the formation) was working Metropolitan Line services today.
The full consist was 21324 + 22324 + 25324 + 24324 + 24323 + 25384 + 22323 + 21323.

Quick question - with the extra coach is it still an S7 unit or an S8 ?
 

Peter Mugridge

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It's officially called an S7+1.






It's unofficially called something else altogether by the Met passengers, especially when it escapes off the Uxbridges onto the Amersham / Cheshams...!!
 

Starmill

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It's officially called an S7+1.






It's unofficially called something else altogether by the Met passengers, especially when it escapes off the Uxbridges onto the Amersham / Cheshams...!!

Are they that unhappy with a eight car train!? What's the difference? The seating layout! Pah!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Overall, I am impressed by the S7s and S8s from a passenger comfort point of view. I would like to see a layout similar to that of D-Stock trains on the S7s due to serve longer Upminster routes, but this isn't likely and that doesn't affect my overall opinions too much anyway. I would also like to see the SDO warning lights in the saloon illuminated as soon as the announcements for the next station are played, whereas they currently do not seem to be. The door-opening sound is rather penetrating (some ideas borrowed from 458s?) and perhaps that could be toned down. Also, there do seem to be issues with litter accumulating under the seats (prime luggage space, however!) and on the little flat metal areas between their fabric covers. I do also have some concerns about the potential lack of power (down to lower traction current voltages supplied than what is ideal) if icy/leafy rails rear their ugly heads - obviously only a line infrastructure upgrade, as planned, will be able to rectify this.

Yeah, it is isn't it? I was waiting at Aldgate in November on one, and I just could not help getting up to press the button after the doors closed (on a timer? The train was just sat there with 5 mins to departure and all the doors were closed, but unlocked). "BEE dum BEE dum!!!" Ha! Take that! I can make a siren noise just by pressing a button! Can't think of a single other example where this happens, as opposed to just when the doors are first enabled.

While we are on the subject of Aldgate, what a big bloody gap! My whole foot could have gone down it , perpendicular to the platform!!!!
 

jopsuk

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I would like to see a layout similar to that of D-Stock trains on the S7s due to serve longer Upminster routes
definitely not happening- the S7s for all three lines are being configured identically as a single fleet
 
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