New seat cushions for GWR...

[superalbs]

Stumbled across this article that GWR will be getting new seat cushions for First Class on the 166 fleet. Can't help but think there are trains in the GWR fleet with a more pressing need for new seat cushions though...

Spring has sprung for GWR passengers

UK: A new design of seat cushion incorporating small metal springs instead of foam is to be fitted in the first class area of a Great Western Railway Class 166 diesel multiple-unit this month, with roll-out across the rest of the class planned. Mattress and furniture ...

www.railwaygazette.com

UK: A new design of seat cushion incorporating small metal springs instead of foam is to be fitted in the first class area of a Great Western Railway Class 166 diesel multiple-unit this month, with roll-out across the rest of the class planned.

Mattress and furniture spring manufacturer Spinks was awarded funding from the Department for Transport and Innovate UK’s First of a Kind programme to bring its EcoSeat glue-free pocket microcoil technology to the rail market. Spinks is developing the seats with Quantum Seating, which has provided the aluminium seat frames and covers with high wool content for the prototypes.

However, the GWR project will make use of the DMU’s existing aluminium seat shell.

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Rail Innovation Exhibition 2025 (Photo Railway Gazette) (25)

South Western Railway has also expressed interest in retrofitting its trains with the cushions, and as an experienced mattress manufacturer Spinks is also targeting the night train market.

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Rail Innovation Exhibition 2025 (Photo Railway Gazette) (27)

Speaking to Rail Business UK at the Rail Innovation Conference in London on February 13, the company said the springs used on train seats in the past were much larger than ones available now. They were displaced by foams which were initially cheaper, but the price has crept up as fire and other standards became stricter. Springs are now competitive on price while also offering a longer life, lower environmental impact and full recyclability.

The company is using a ‘Squirming Herman’ device for accelerated endurance testing, which has now simulated 14 years of the harsh life of a train seat.

 

[Parallel]

Stumbled across this article that GWR will be getting new seat cushions for First Class on the 166 fleet. Can't help but think there are trains in the GWR fleet with a more pressing need for new seat cushions though...

Spring has sprung for GWR passengers

UK: A new design of seat cushion incorporating small metal springs instead of foam is to be fitted in the first class area of a Great Western Railway Class 166 diesel multiple-unit this month, with roll-out across the rest of the class planned. Mattress and furniture ...

www.railwaygazette.com

Why make changes to the most comfortable seats of their entire fleet? Really questionable decision, especially as most Turbos have only just gone through a refresh programme.

 

[vicbury]

Why make changes to the most comfortable seats of their entire fleet? Really questionable decision, especially as most Turbos have only just gone through a refresh programme.

Your most comfortable seats of the entire fleet are my least comfortable seats of the entire fleet. For me they have a lack of support, particularly underneath, have a strangely slanting base and back, awkwardly shaped back, and arms that are too high. But then I like the seats on the Hitachis so what do I know

 

[fgwrich]

What I also find odd about it, is that the FC area of the 166s isn’t exactly in use as FC anymore. And it’s not exactly used much, except for the Gatwick services, on the 3 car 165s either.

 

[DelW]

Stumbled across this article that GWR will be getting new seat cushions for First Class on the 166 fleet. Can't help but think there are trains in the GWR fleet with a more pressing need for new seat cushions though...

Yes, when I saw a link to that article this morning I was hoping that it was finally being acknowledged that the collapsed seat bases on class 80x trains are well overdue for replacement.

At least if this trial is successful we might get a return to more comfortable seats, after two decades when seats got steadily worse with each new train type introduced.

 

[Discuss223]

At least if this trial is successful we might get a return to more comfortable seats, after two decades when seats got steadily worse with each new train type introduced.

In the East Midlands, a lot of planning has gone in to the design of the Aurora seats and they have been tested out by passengers at stations.

 

[CarltonA]

I don't expect the modern rail traveller is aware of how much give the seats of old had. A visit to a heritage railway would yield the answer. We will never go back to those levels of comfort on modern rolling stock of course. I welcome a return to a sprung cushion that is fire safe and recyclable.

 

[skyhigh]

In the East Midlands, a lot of planning has gone in to the design of the Aurora seats and they have been tested out by passengers at stations.

Ha ha ha.

They did the same thing with 80x and 195 seats with a public trial at stations. And look what we ended up with.

 

[Discuss223]

They did the same thing with 80x and 195 seats with a public trial at stations. And look what we ended up with.

That's a good point. They are both horrendous seats.

 

[superalbs]

Ha ha ha.

They did the same thing with 80x and 195 seats with a public trial at stations. And look what we ended up with.

Because they allegedly just ignored the feedback they received.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ha ha ha.

They did the same thing with 80x and 195 seats with a public trial at stations. And look what we ended up with.

With the 195, the right choice. The airline seats on 195s are already quite tight, had they used the very thick backed FISA LEAN the legroom would have been awful, like say a 150/2 or 153.

The 80x, yes, I'll give you. The TfW version is decent though.

Because they allegedly just ignored the feedback they received.

Probably because they realised they'd made a very silly error in putting for trial a seat that basically didn't fit in the intended layout.

 

[Halish Railway]

Why make changes to the most comfortable seats of their entire fleet? Really questionable decision, especially as most Turbos have only just gone through a refresh programme.

Maybe to do a bit of market research before deciding on what seats to fit to their new trains that they have a tender out for.

 

[PG]

Can't help but think there are trains in the GWR fleet with a more pressing need for new seat cushions though...

The company is using a ‘Squirming Herman’ device for accelerated endurance testing, which has now simulated 14 years of the harsh life of a train seat.

I'd like to see what's left of an 80x seat after 'Squirming Herman’ has been at it? A pile of dust maybe

 

[QSK19]

In the East Midlands, a lot of planning has gone in to the design of the Aurora seats and they have been tested out by passengers at stations.

Showcasing the seats at stations was more of a fait accompli as opposed to people truly testing them out and having input into the final design. It felt more like “this is what you’re getting, like it or not” as opposed to “this is what our prototype is, let us know your suggestions as to how we can improve the final product”.

Back OT, it does seem like a waste of money when, as others have said, budget could be spent better elsewhere considering how seemingly tight railway finances are.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Utter waste of money replacing these seats for the limited 1st class service they will be used for. No doubt the good burghers of Exmouth will appreciate them on the Paignton stoppers.

 

[Class172]

Utter waste of money replacing these seats for the limited 1st class service they will be used for. No doubt the good burghers of Exmouth will appreciate them on the Paignton stoppers.

I certainly will thank you!

 

[crablab]

budget could be spent better elsewhere considering how seemingly tight railway finances are.

The issue (as discussed in this thread) is the contractual relationship with Agility Trains, who supply the IET sets. Even if GWR had a big wad of cash (and they'd certainly need one), there's no guarantee Agility would vary the contract and bring forward the refurbishment.

 

[takno]

Utter waste of money replacing these seats for the limited 1st class service they will be used for. No doubt the good burghers of Exmouth will appreciate them on the Paignton stoppers.

Given it's a trial of new technology it may well make sense to test it in the smallest possible consistent area of the train, since then they can be more confident when getting feedback that they are getting the feedback from people who actually sat on the seats. It's also quite likely that the trial is being entirely funded by the seat manufacturer or some combination of a ROSCO or the DfT, rather than GWR paying anything.

It's probably actually good that they are gathering feedback from users who are accustomed to reasonably comfortable older seats, rather than people who've been living with the awful IET seats. Any feedback from IET users is likely to report an improvement, however small, whereas the users they have chosen will be able to give more critical feedback.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Maybe so if on a couple of sets for a trial ,but the OP suggests that the whole fleet will be fitted. Nothing suggests they will be fitted in standard. If it’s the Rosco that’s paying then let them waste their money.

 

[50031]

Maybe so if on a couple of sets for a trial ,but the OP suggests that the whole fleet will be fitted. Nothing suggests they will be fitted in standard. If it’s the Rosco that’s paying then let them waste their money.

The wording seemed a bit ambiguous. If the trial is successful, logically, all seating may then be fitted. On the other hand, the Turbos are due to be replaced in a few years, so who knows?

 

[fgwrich]

The way the article is worded with this quote in particular “South Western Railway has also expressed interest in retrofitting its trains with the cushions” suggests they could be fitted in the 158/159 fleet too.

 

[Mikey C]

I don't expect the modern rail traveller is aware of how much give the seats of old had. A visit to a heritage railway would yield the answer. We will never go back to those levels of comfort on modern rolling stock of course. I welcome a return to a sprung cushion that is fire safe and recyclable.

You don't need to go back that far to find comfortable seats. The daft thing is that most 4 across Turbostars, Electrostars and Desiros have much better seating that our flagship Intercity train!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You don't need to go back that far to find comfortable seats. The daft thing is that most 4 across Turbostars, Electrostars and Desiros have much better seating that our flagship Intercity train!

The 390 has rather good seating since the refurbishment

 

[Towers]

The wording seemed a bit ambiguous. If the trial is successful, logically, all seating may then be fitted. On the other hand, the Turbos are due to be replaced in a few years, so who knows?

Logically that’s very unlikely, given that the rest of the seating on a Turbo is to 3+2 spec with the seats sized accordingly!

 

[Snow1964]

The issue (as discussed in this thread) is the contractual relationship with Agility Trains, who supply the IET sets. Even if GWR had a big wad of cash (and they'd certainly need one), there's no guarantee Agility would vary the contract and bring forward the refurbishment.

The oldest have been in service about 7.5 years.
Probably nearer 9 years since some seats were assembled.

What sort of timescale would have been in the contract before work to refresh the upholstery or deformed foam padding is undertaken ?

 

[m79900]

That looks uncannily like the Trentbarton moquette

 

[crablab]

What sort of timescale would have been in the contract before work to refresh the upholstery or deformed foam padding is undertaken ?

I'd suggest that question is best asked in the linked thread, although I believe the answer is there isn't a defined period as Agility are supposed to be delivering the sets to a specified standard and broken seats don't meet that standard. So one of two things is happening, if that is the case...

 

[physics34]

Hurrah! It's like we've come full circle. Springs in seats, what a novel idea.

Now order them for Thameslink.

The 390 has rather good seating since the refurbishment

I do like the seats.. Just still rather hard.

 

[CarltonA]

Hurrah! It's like we've come full circle. Springs in seats, what a novel idea.

Not quite full circle or they'd be stuffing them with horse hair!

 

[physics34]

Not quite full circle or they'd be stuffing them with horse hair!

Ha ha