New semaphore signals on the Dudding Hill Line

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by WideRanger, 13 Feb 2020.

  1. WideRanger

    WideRanger Member

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    Looking up at the Dudding Hill line as it crosses the Metropolitan Line just south of Neasden station, it seems that new semaphore signals are being installed.

    Were my eyes deceiving me?
     
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  3. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    No. They were installed a week or two ago.
     
  4. hooverboy

    hooverboy Member

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    semaphore?

    there's not much of an excuse for installing these any more is there?
    besides,most of the line is colour aspect
     
  5. Aictos

    Aictos Established Member

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    Why put in new semaphore signals? Why not put in multiple aspect signals?
     
  6. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Cheap, like for like with no complex interlocking changes on a low-capacity line. Strikes me as just being value for money, given the actual need at this moment in time.
     
  7. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Multiple aspect signals means resignalling.

    To put it into context, a new semaphore (in the same location) would cost a few thousand pounds.

    Resignalling that line is in the tens of millions (notwithstanding that there has been space left on West Hampstead Panel 2 for it for 40 years!)
     
  8. Aictos

    Aictos Established Member

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    Ahh I see, now it makes sense.
     
  9. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    I've not read any notices for that line, but it might just be a like for like replacement of a worn out signal. You can see them clearly from the Jubilee Line near Neasden.
     
  10. John Webb

    John Webb Established Member

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    This line - primarily for freight with occasional steam excursions - is semaphore signalled throughout its length from its divergence from the North London line at Acton Wells to a triangular junction with the Midland Main Line at Cricklewood at Dudding Hill Junction. It is briefly covered in a recent book "Britain's Last Mechanical Signalling" by Gareth David (Pen and Sword Transport, 2019, ISBN 978 1 52671 773 2) and in more detail in the Middleton Press book "St Pancras to St Albans" published in 2002 (ISBN 1 901706 78 8).
     
  11. Railwaysceptic

    Railwaysceptic Member

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    I'm sorry but there are some multiple aspect signals on that line. For example, Acton Canal Wharf Junction is protected exclusively by lights.
     
  12. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    no excuse - other than avoiding the massive costs required to re signal a relatively quiet line! But then it is only taxpayers money and posters here seem very keen to spaff it away as often as possible.

    most likely because it is a like for like replacement.
     
  13. John Webb

    John Webb Established Member

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    Fair enough - the new book I cited didn't make that clear.
     
  14. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Cost apart, IIRC there is a policy against replacing individual semaphores with colour lights because it is potentially both confusing and dangerous - because of the risk of "reading through" to a (more powerful) light beyond a semaphore.
    Back in steam days, the LMR and SR both replaced semaphore distants with colour lights further out to allow for higher speeds (a semaphore might have needed to be motor worked anyway...); you could replace all the running signals but to little advantage.
    OT: ISTR it happened at Crewkerne, in the down direction only, but that had something to do with the distant signal for Crewkerne Gates also needing moving...
     
  15. Edders23

    Edders23 Member

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    A few years ago they replaced some signals between Oakham and Melton but with more semaphores

    I suspect the old were just a bit worn and they didn't need to upgrade the signalling on that line
     
  16. sharpley

    sharpley Member

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    Heres a cab ride on the Dudding Hill line from 8 years ago, has a mix of semaphores and multiple aspect light signals. Warning : video is a bit wobbly, don't get seasick
     
  17. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    The closest remaining semaphores to central London, or is Kew North Jct. still semaphores (and is it closer anyway)?
     
  18. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Neasden is well over a mile closer to central London (defined as the Eleanor Cross at Charing Cross) than Kew East Jn.
     
  19. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    Surely it's Dudden Hill?
     
  20. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    No. It's Dudding Hill. There used to be a Dudding Hill station too.
     
  21. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    My gut feeling was that Neasden was closer - thanks. Is Kew East still 'sticks'?
     
  22. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    Interesting. I was just going by the OS map (attached) and the fact that the A4088 is called Dudden Hill Lane. The local name must have been corrupted over time.
    Screenshot 2020-02-14 at 21.32.40.png
    Screenshot 2020-02-14 at 21.36.36.png
     
  23. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    If the rest of the line is currently semaphore signalled then it is a drop-in replacement. Switching to colour light signals will be more expensive and more disruptive overall. The semaphores can come out when the whole line is re-signalled.

    Edit: I can see this point was made by several other posters.
     
  24. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    Kew East Jn has been colour light since July 2017, but probably a few years earlier. Now controlled from Acton Wells Jn.
     
  25. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Neasden is all semaphores. Dudding Hill and Acton Canal Wharf are mostly lights.
     
  26. John Webb

    John Webb Established Member

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    Thanks for that!
     
  27. Springs Branch

    Springs Branch Member

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    I wonder how Network Rail manage procurement of components when bits of semaphore signaling need renewing, given the limited and diminishing demand for these items. Do they:
    1. Have a warehouse with a range of likely items (signal arms, coloured spectacle lenses etc.) sitting on the shelf, brand new and still wrapped in plastic? Bit like spare parts for superseded models of cars.
    2. Manufacture new components as and when they’re needed in a specialist workshop somewhere? – probably at huge cost per item, given the small quantities and elevated price tag for anything “railway”, but still cheaper than resignaling an entire line.
    3. Have a scrapyard (hopefully undercover) with all sorts of mechanical components recovered from earlier resignalling schemes? Some bloke wanders around the yard with a list, looking for the parts he needs which are still in reasonable nick – bit of rust treatment, lick of paint, lovely jubbly, it’s ready to go back out on the line.
     
  28. Railwaysceptic

    Railwaysceptic Member

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    Correct.
     
  29. Railwaysceptic

    Railwaysceptic Member

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    Wrong. Totally wrong. A very silly mistake was made a century or so ago and, very childishly, the railway industry has chosen to perpetuate the mistake. The relevant area of London is Dudden Hill. It is not Dudding Hill.
     
  30. Railwaysceptic

    Railwaysceptic Member

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    The name has not been corrupted over time. An idiotic and, presumably, careless mistake was made when The Midland Railway made its London extension from Bedford to St. Pancras plus a Goods Line from Cricklewood to Acton Wells Junction. It's a simple as that, and it's high time that silly mistake was corrected. I do however thank you for uploading those maps which make the truth so abundantly clear.

    When I was a boy trainspotting on what is now called the ECML, there was a station called Wood Green. It's now called Alexandra Palace. When, even younger, I used to travel from Waterloo to Woking, there was a station called West Weybridge. It's now called Byfleet And New Haw. As, quite obviously, changing names is no big deal, what on earth is the point of continuing with same stupid mistake made one hundred years ago? The area of London is Dudden Hill. Change the name and stop messing about!
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2020
  31. Railwaysceptic

    Railwaysceptic Member

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    I've just checked on YouTube and found that, very disappointingly, two really good in-cab videos have been withdrawn. Apparently those who uploaded have not kept up their subscription payments to YouTube.
     

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