New semaphore signals on the Dudding Hill Line

[najaB]

Apparently those who uploaded have not kept up their subscription payments to YouTube.

I'm not sure that is correct. AFAIK, YouTube pays content providers rather than the other way around.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder how Network Rail manage procurement of components when bits of semaphore signaling need renewing, given the limited and diminishing demand for these items. Do they:

1. Have a warehouse with a range of likely items (signal arms, coloured spectacle lenses etc.) sitting on the shelf, brand new and still wrapped in plastic? Bit like spare parts for superseded models of cars.
2. Manufacture new components as and when they’re needed in a specialist workshop somewhere? – probably at huge cost per item, given the small quantities and elevated price tag for anything “railway”, but still cheaper than resignaling an entire line.
3. Have a scrapyard (hopefully undercover) with all sorts of mechanical components recovered from earlier resignalling schemes? Some bloke wanders around the yard with a list, looking for the parts he needs which are still in reasonable nick – bit of rust treatment, lick of paint, lovely jubbly, it’s ready to go back out on the line.

Yes!!

 

[sharpley]

I've just checked on YouTube and found that, very disappointingly, two really good in-cab videos have been withdrawn. Apparently those who uploaded have not kept up their subscription payments to YouTube.

There was a DB 66 driver that had a channel of cab ride videos around London, including some going down the Dudding / en Hill line. Possibly the same ones you mentioned. YouTube don't charge to upload videos so I assume the chap has deleted his Google account or been told by his employer to take them down. There is another 66 driver that uploads cab rides around London though (Freight Rambler)

EDIT : The Freight Rambler channel has a video from Acton to Wembley, partially along the Dudding Hill line. Better quality than the other video I posted.

 

[Deepgreen]

The name has not been corrupted over time. An idiotic and, presumably, careless mistake was made when The Midland Railway made its London extension from Bedford to St. Pancras plus a Goods Line from Cricklewood to Acton Wells Junction. It's a simple as that, and it's high time that silly mistake was corrected. I do however thank you for uploading those maps which make the truth so abundantly clear.

When I was a boy trainspotting on what is now called the ECML, there was a station called Wood Green. It's now called Alexandra Park. When, even younger, I used to travel from Waterloo to Woking, there was a station called West Weybridge. It's now called Byfleet And New Haw. As, quite obviously, changing names is no big deal, what on earth is the point of continuing with same stupid mistake made one hundred years ago? The area of London is Dudden Hill. Change the name and stop messing about!

I get your point, but, to me (a known grammar and punctuation fiend!), there's a charm to the discrepancy. When I was managing station refurbishments on LU we debated about a specific platform roundel at St. James's Park station (by the stairs at the east end of the EB platform) which reads "St. James' Park". My immediate reaction was to replace it with the correct form, but on reflection, its historical interest persuaded me to keep it as it was. It's still there.

The loss of West Weybridge robbed the UK of its then-largest number of consecutive names beginning with the same letter - Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Weybridge, West Byfleet, Woking and Worplesdon. Nowadays, of course, we have Hounslow East, Hounslow Central, Hounslow West, Hatton Cross, Heathrow 4 and Heathrow T123 (and on through the Hounslows again if you wish!).

In this case, of course, there is no station at Dudding Hill anymore (or any reference to the route involving 'normal' passengers) and thus passengers are not involved in any confusion. My home station of Betchworth was, for years, announced by FGW on the train p.a. recordings as "BLetchworth" (my capital). It took me several attempts to get them to change it!

 

[Railwaysceptic]

There was a DB 66 driver that had a channel of cab ride videos around London, including some going down the Dudding / en Hill line. Possibly the same ones you mentioned. YouTube don't charge to upload videos so I assume the chap has deleted his Google account or been told by his employer to take them down. There is another 66 driver that uploads cab rides around London though (Freight Rambler)

EDIT : The Freight Rambler channel has a video from Acton to Wembley, partially along the Dudding Hill line. Better quality than the other video I posted.

I believe - and I might be quite wrong - that Freight Rambler and the earlier driver are one and the same. He gave his previous incarnation an appalling name which I won't repeat, and when he obtained a vastly superior camera he made a new start.

That Acton to Wembley video shows clearly the colour light signals at Canal Wharf Junction.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I'm not sure that is correct. AFAIK, YouTube pays content providers rather than the other way around.

You're probably right. The two expired links are these:

Acton to St. Pancras Churchyard

and

Neasden South to Willesden TMD

One account has been closed and the other video has "gone private."

 

[sharpley]

Another video from Freight Rambler along the Dudding Hill line, from Neasden to Acton. Note the caravan site dumping all its rubbish trackside at about 08:11 in the video

 

[Bald Rick]

Another video from Freight Rambler along the Dudding Hill line, from Neasden to Acton. Note the caravan site dumping all its rubbish trackside at about 08:11 in the video

Ahhh, the gipsy site. Scene of a famous battle one Christmas when they came over to stop some noisy work, but the gangs (from Doncaster and Darlington) sent them back in a manner they understood.

 

[Deepgreen]

Another video from Freight Rambler along the Dudding Hill line, from Neasden to Acton. Note the caravan site dumping all its rubbish trackside at about 08:11 in the video

Wow - looks almost like a somersault signal at 4:30!

 

[sharpley]

Ahhh, the gipsy site. Scene of a famous battle one Christmas when they came over to stop some noisy work, but the gangs (from Doncaster and Darlington) sent them back in a manner they understood.

There must be literally tonnes of crap thrown onto NR property from that site. I know dealing with the travelling community isn't easy but theres piles and piles of it close to the track. Visible on satellite view of Google maps as well.

 

[Deepgreen]

There must be literally tonnes of crap thrown onto NR property from that site. I know dealing with the travelling community isn't easy but theres piles and piles of it close to the track. Visible on satellite view of Google maps as well.

Yes - it's a disgrace. A spark or two from a steam special in summer could set the whole lot ablaze. Still; what's better - that they foul their own doorstep (albeit not their property), or fly-tip it all on someone's else's? The third option of not doing it at all seems too fanciful. So many scattered elements in the traveller communities ruin the rests' reputation.

 

[nom de guerre]

He gave his previous incarnation an appalling name

It really wasn’t.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Wrong. Totally wrong. A very silly mistake was made a century or so ago and, very childishly, the railway industry has chosen to perpetuate the mistake. The relevant area of London is Dudden Hill. It is not Dudding Hill.

The area might be called Dudden Hill, the line is called the Dudding Hill line. The station there was called Dudding Hill. Whether you agree with the reasons for those names or not is besides the point, it doesn't change the fact that the line is called the Dudding Hill line.

 

[John Webb]

The name has not been corrupted over time. An idiotic and, presumably, careless mistake was made when The Midland Railway made its London extension from Bedford to St. Pancras plus a Goods Line from Cricklewood to Acton Wells Junction. It's a simple as that, and it's high time that silly mistake was corrected. I do however thank you for uploading those maps which make the truth so abundantly clear......

One reason for not changing the way the railway calls things is that a great deal of paperwork and on the ground identification would need to be altered at considerable expense for what is, after all, a relatively minor discrepancy. When the Preservation Trust took over St Albans South signal box, one of the first questions we asked was "Why wasn't it renamed 'St Albans' after the North box was closed in 1970?"
One member, who had worked in the S&T group maintaining the box when still operating, pointed at the hundreds of wires individually labelled with their function and 'St Albans South' and told us of the considerable work that would be needed to amend every label... So St Albans South it had stayed!

There are other places where railway spelling and local spellings do not agree - but I'd be going off-thread if I were to start quoting examples here.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

The area might be called Dudden Hill, the line is called the Dudding Hill line. The station there was called Dudding Hill. Whether you agree with the reasons for those names or not is besides the point, it doesn't change the fact that the line is called the Dudding Hill line.

You should have made that point when responding to the question about Dudden Hill, but you didn't. That was why I responded to your post. The station's name changed at various times and was called Willesden and Dudden Hill at the time of closure. So, the Midland Railway did recognise a mistake had been made.

 

[Trailfinder]

Great cab ride videos.

How long will it be before we can see a cab ride video of Acton to Wembley from a class 90/92?

Most probably never!

 

[LowLevel]

You should have made that point when responding to the question about Dudden Hill, but you didn't. That was why I responded to your post. The station's name changed at various times and was called Willesden and Dudden Hill at the time of closure. So, the Midland Railway did recognise a mistake had been made.

You should remember that age old adage 'there are 3 ways of doing things - the right way, the wrong way and the railway'. Rarely does the railway trouble itself with resolving naming anomalies though there are exceptions.

As long as people who need to know understand what you are referring to I don't think it really matters much in the scheme of things.

 

[Deepgreen]

You should remember that age old adage 'there are 3 ways of doing things - the right way, the wrong way and the railway'. Rarely does the railway trouble itself with resolving naming anomalies though there are exceptions.

As long as people who need to know understand what you are referring to I don't think it really matters much in the scheme of things.

At Day Zero was the Railway, and it created God...

 

[Trainician]

Network Rail should now install colour light signals on the dudding Hill line instead of new semaphores.

 

[30907]

Network Rail should now install colour light signals on the dudding Hill line instead of new semaphores.

Why? Please refer to the beginning of the thread before explaining.

 

[Trainician]

Oh I forgot that they already installed new semaphores sorry

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I was in Gladstone Park last week and I saw that Neasden Junction is protected by colour lights. I'd never noticed that before.

 

[Deepgreen]

I was in Gladstone Park last week and I saw that Neasden Junction is protected by colour lights. I'd never noticed that before.

I was in Gladstone Park on Tuesday by chance (I'd never been there before but had to make a trip to very nearby from Surrey) and took a few shots, of which these are two, showing the new signal (not in use yet) with its modern maintenance access platform compared with the old simple ladder, and its juxtaposition with the colour light protecting Dudding Hill Junction, which is the one I assume you meant. Neasden Junction has had its lovely old MR junction gantry replaced by a new, utilitarian semaphore gantry. BTW, no trespassing, just long arms over the sharp-tipped fence!

 

[Gostav]

I was in Gladstone Park on Tuesday by chance (I'd never been there before but had to make a trip to very nearby from Surrey) and took a few shots, of which these are two, showing the new signal (not in use yet) with its modern maintenance access platform compared with the old simple ladder, and its juxtaposition with the colour light protecting Dudding Hill Junction, which is the one I assume you meant. Neasden Junction has had its lovely old MR junction gantry replaced by a new, utilitarian semaphore gantry. BTW, no trespassing, just long arms over the sharp-tipped fence!

View attachment 79946View attachment 79945

Emm, l thought a new semaphore signal should have some high tech features in 2020 such as powered drive, Carbon fibre pillar, self-illumination arms, modular moving parts and microcomputer control.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Has everyone seen the recent YouTube video of Acton to St. Pancras Churchyard Sidings?

This has been uploaded by Railmart who seem to be "the new kid on the block" with several in-cab videos including one with excellent picture quality from Boston to Skegness.

 

[Deepgreen]

Emm, l thought a new semaphore signal should have some high tech features in 2020 such as powered drive, Carbon fibre pillar, self-illumination arms, modular moving parts and microcomputer control.

Well, the oil lamps do now have remotely-controlled wick ignitions.

 

[High Dyke]

I wonder how Network Rail manage procurement of components when bits of semaphore signaling need renewing, given the limited and diminishing demand for these items. Do they:

1. Have a warehouse with a range of likely items (signal arms, coloured spectacle lenses etc.) sitting on the shelf, brand new and still wrapped in plastic? Bit like spare parts for superseded models of cars.
2. Manufacture new components as and when they’re needed in a specialist workshop somewhere? – probably at huge cost per item, given the small quantities and elevated price tag for anything “railway”, but still cheaper than resignaling an entire line.
3. Have a scrapyard (hopefully undercover) with all sorts of mechanical components recovered from earlier resignalling schemes? Some bloke wanders around the yard with a list, looking for the parts he needs which are still in reasonable nick – bit of rust treatment, lick of paint, lovely jubbly, it’s ready to go back out on the line.

A number of years ago, at Newark Castle, we broke the crank assembly for the crossover. Where it exited from beneath the box it was in an S shape. As we needed the crossover a few weeks later, for the leaf-fall season, it was decided to have the part welded back together instead of waiting for a new piece to be machined.

 

[MadMac]

A number of years ago, at Newark Castle, we broke the crank assembly for the crossover. Where it exited from beneath the box it was in an S shape. As we needed the crossover a few weeks later, for the leaf-fall season, it was decided to have the part welded back together instead of waiting for a new piece to be machined.

Similar situation a number of years ago at Holywood where the mechanics of the gates (last set of wheel-worked gates in Scotland) were getting badly worn, and the local S&T got replacements made by a blacksmith in the area.

 

[Grumpy]

I was in Gladstone Park on Tuesday by chance (I'd never been there before but had to make a trip to very nearby from Surrey) and took a few shots, of which these are two, showing the new signal (not in use yet) with its modern maintenance access platform compared with the old simple ladder, and its juxtaposition with the colour light protecting Dudding Hill Junction, which is the one I assume you meant. Neasden Junction has had its lovely old MR junction gantry replaced by a new, utilitarian semaphore gantry. BTW, no trespassing, just long arms over the sharp-tipped fence!

View attachment 79946View attachment 79945

The access platform must have cost a bit. Couldn't the new signal post have been like some modern lamp standards and hinged so that the top bits could be simply wound down to ground level for maintenance?

 

[edwin_m]

Back in steam days, the LMR and SR both replaced semaphore distants with colour lights further out to allow for higher speeds (a semaphore might have needed to be motor worked anyway...); you could replace all the running signals but to little advantage..

It also made the signals more visible to the driver of a train approaching at full speed. Except in case of emergency, if there is any doubt about the aspect of a semaphore stop signal then the train will already have been slowed by the distant and approaching at low speeds.

Also a semaphore stop signal couldn't simply be replaced by a two-aspect colour-light unless it was the section signal (the last one controlled by a particular box). A three-aspect would be required to act as a repeater for the next stop signal (controlled by the same box) which could still be at danger. This point is probably now historic, because as mentioned above semaphores are not nowadays replaced piecemeal by colour lights.

Wrong. Totally wrong. A very silly mistake was made a century or so ago and, very childishly, the railway industry has chosen to perpetuate the mistake. The relevant area of London is Dudden Hill. It is not Dudding Hill.

Is there a confirmed source for this being a mistake? Spelling of place names often varied in Victorian times when there weren't many maps and many people were illiterate anyway.