New sleeper service?

[paul1609]

If I've understood correctly this used to be BR's most profitable sleeper route and given how confounded slow XC trains are, I'd certainly use it! Alittle late in Plymoth and a little early in Bristol would be a reasonable compromise!

Id imagine the bar receipts would have put the rest of the network to shame. Wouldn't be allowed nowadays of course it would be bringing the navy in to disrepute. I seem to recall that berth allocation was by naval rank and branch and that at peak leave times overcrowding was rife. I can remember 1 trip with 6 AB stokers in a berth, it didn't really matter because we stayed up all night celebrating.

 

[Bald Rick]

Besides - with free road access , why not does Stagecoach or similar offer a low cost/ Greyhound type operation. They could do it with no regulatory or safety case b+++cks. ?

... and a fraction of the staff numbers, all on much lower salaries.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So very true. There's life left in the Mk3s yet, and a low cost overnight service could work. Like to many things, you have to generate demand through effective marketing. Even if such a service was to operate three days per week in each direction it could be a start.

Alternatively, once the new stock arrives, effective planning of portion working could see a five car sleeper set attached to the Scotland to London train detached in the midlands, then run to Exeter and attach to the Riviera.

1) effective marketing is of course crucial. But then so is having a product that you can sell at a price that will cover its costs and that the market will willingly pay for. This is not the case with the sleeper.

2) the sleepers are already at maximum length on the Scotland - London run, they don't fit in some platforms as it is.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Not going to happen I know but I'd like to see consideration given to a Holyhead and/or Fishguard/Pembrokeshire overnight sleeper to London. Shame a use for the soon to be ex-Caledonian stock can't be used for 18-24 months to gauge the demand.

The WG have spent a small fortune subsidising trains and planes in and out of Cardiff from the North yet don't seem interested in the two way traffic to/from London.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The Caithness to Edinburgh proposal is on the Caledonian Sleeper discussion topic, from post 1295 onwards.

Here's (hopefully!) a link: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118802&highlight=Caithness+to+Edinburgh+sleeper&page=87

 

[Starmill]

Good news that I read recently is that there is a (direct) Leeds Bradford to Newquay flight being introduced this year that'll take about 1hr 20min.

As much as I enjoyed my trip there I didn't particulary enjoy 10 hours on a coach each way! (Arguably about half of that was going round West Yorkshire picking punters up and service station stops!)

I'm being quoted for a through train from Leeds (HST) at around £60 each way even on high Ssmmer Saturdays. Sounds pretty competitive to me at around 7 hours and is a lot better for the environment than flying and faster and more comfortable than a coach.

My own view is that subsidising sleeper trains is a good use of public money if it can be used to reduce demand for air travel. Travelling by overnight train is going to be much, much more efficient than making a journey of just a few hundred miles by air, and crucially would emit much much less CO2/passenger km. The more sleeping vehicles you can sustain, the more efficient the operation becomes, the lower fares you can afford to offer and the advantages over air become clearer. Still, we are a small country and only really the Highland sleepers, with all of their cost and complexity, are doing much of a job of providing a worthwhile sleeping service. Then again, summer demand must be high judging by the number of days its fully reserved - or they are charging £200+ (!) for your own cabin on these trains.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I would think an overnight Holyhead to Euston sleeper would be the most viable - connects with the two night ferries, picks up along route on the NWC and goes fast from Crewe, in London in the am. Would have to be priced to be cheaper than an evening flight from Dublin and a hotel in London, if it can do that there may be a market. Some sort of through ticket similar to the current SailRail thing.

Would be interesting to know how many people on the Night Holyhead boat train have through tickets to London in form or another.

But even that is probably beyond viable!

 

[PaulHarding150]

I wasn't thinking of the connections with the ferries tbh.

Holyhead and Edinburgh are both around 4hours from London on the fastest direct trains and an overnight sleeper to NW Wales could do a Midnight to 6am run I guess.

I would be intrigued to know the number of people who travel from North West Wales to London via rail. There is an airport in Hollyhead which conceivably in years to come could have flights to London, although high landing fees and at City Airport would probably prevent that.

 

[Mordac]

Redeployed on what exactly?

Most will be cannibalised for spares and scrapped. A few might make their way to GWR for the Night Riviera fleet or into heriage rakes as support coaches such as used on the Royal Scotsman and the Northern Belle.

I believe ScotRail have first dabs on the CS Mk2s.

For what, Fife Circle sleeper?

 

[IanXC]

For what, Fife Circle sleeper?

I believe ScotRail have first dabs on the CS Mk2s.

The mark 2 stocks is lounge cars, seated and brake vehicles.

 

[crewmeal]

Maybe Stelios would like to paint a few Mk3s in Easy logo. He's tried just about everything else and it seems to work for him.

 

[hulabaloo]

To be quite honest, spending up to £200 to sleep in a broom cupboard is not my idea of fun. Especially when these broom cupboards have no end of technical problems at times.

 

[najaB]

To be quite honest, spending up to £200 to sleep in a broom cupboard is not my idea of fun. Especially when these broom cupboards have no end of technical problems at times.

To each their own, I suppose, but the Sleeper works for me. If I'm heading down south for an early meeting I can either travel the day before and stay in a cheap hotel overnight, or leave home later and spend the night in a cheap hotel that happens to be on the move.

The only real technical issues that I've suffered have been dodgy heating (can happen in a cheap hotel) and a fire alarm activation - though fortunately it was shortly after leaving Inverness so well before anyone was heading to bed.

 

[Class 170101]

Yeeeessss.

Problem being, arrival/departure times at each location. A sensible arrival at Plymouth means too early at Bristol etc etc

Could just detach / attach coaches at Bristol and ;eave them there until a sensible time for boarding / alighting as used to go on at Plymouth. However I believe this was stopped to save money.

 

[CosherB]

For what, Fife Circle sleeper?

I said they had first dabs, whether they will actually manage to find a use for them is an entirely seperate matter!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I would think an overnight Holyhead to Euston sleeper would be the most viable - connects with the two night ferries, picks up along route on the NWC and goes fast from Crewe, in London in the am. Would have to be priced to be cheaper than an evening flight from Dublin and a hotel in London, if it can do that there may be a market. Some sort of through ticket similar to the current SailRail thing.

Would be interesting to know how many people on the Night Holyhead boat train have through tickets to London in form or another.

But even that is probably beyond viable!

Put it this way - in the glorious days of BR - the loadings on the down Euston sleeper to connect with the 0300 sailing to Holyead were virtually nil (would you get into bed at say 2230 and get out at 0215 say ? - and the other way was a short night in a sleeper from 0400 to 0700.....

Holyhead is not exactly a business destination - or frankly any other destination ...

 

[Mordac]

I said they had first dabs, whether they will actually manage to find a use for them is an entirely seperate matter!

True, I just couldn't think of any reason why they'd want them tbh so was wondering what Transport Scotland was thinking when they put that in the contract.