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New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

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BestWestern

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It's here somewhere, and it was a link to the timetable consultation on the SWR website last autumn. But when I looked there a few days ago all I could find was a statement thanking those who responded and saying they were looking at what had been said. It makes sense that, now that the consultation is over, the documents that formed the basis of it are now longer there. But I do have downloaded copies of some of the draft timetables, and I expect some others do too.

Ah, yes that would indeed be logical! We shall discover soon enough!
 
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infobleep

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All the changes will begin December but will the rolling stock in use be able to cope with timetable changes in terms of speeding up the services?

I thought new rolling stock was being brought in to speed up access onto trains, along with raising the height of platforms. Neither of which will be in place by December.
 

Goldfish62

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Ah, yes that would indeed be logical! We shall discover soon enough!
I'm sure
All the changes will begin December but will the rolling stock in use be able to cope with timetable changes in terms of speeding up the services?

I thought new rolling stock was being brought in to speed up access onto trains, along with raising the height of platforms. Neither of which will be in place by December.
The Dec 2020 timetable is proposed to speed up services, not the Dec 2018 timetable. Some services, such as the semi-fast Readings actually get slightly slower from December.
 

Muzer

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I think Raynes Park substation is going to get a voltage boost by then, so the 444s are hopefully going to have their acceleration limit lessened, so that should improve things a little. Someone correct me if I've got the timetable of that wrong, though.
 

HowardGWR

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Campaigning from an MP has potentially resulted in all Exeter services calling at Clapham Junction, and omitting Woking.

And me. :)

I don't want services to the villages between Basingstoke and Salisbury to be worsened, but these stops should not come at the expense of pax who still have a hour of more ahead of them (or behind them) to /from the Exeter line. I don't agree with not stopping at Woking though, as long as one has to change there for the Heathrow coach. The alternative for airport destined pax from far away beyond Salisbury (usually with luggage don't forget) is to stop only at Woking instead of Clapham Junction and connect with a new Woking to Gatwick and Brighton service, as well as the coach (later on, train hopefully) to Heathrow.
 

700007

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If that's the final version, there will be many complaints. Currently, after 1600 - when I guess the peak begins, since that's the point at which the Super Off-Peak Return stops being valid - there are nine trains that stop at Overton and Grateley: Waterloo departures from 1620 to 2020 inclusive. Thereafter it's an hourly service on the route. In the draft timetable, there were seven: 1655 to 1955 inclusive. The next one would be 2055. This represents a substantial worsening of the service, and having a more frequent service on Sundays doesn't compensate for it. I don't know how many alight from the 1620 at Grateley, but it's anything between 15 and 30 at Overton. So all those people will be adding to the new 1655.

The proposals did include a half-hourly service throughout the evening, but still only hourly to Overton and Grateley, and the later evening clientele is obviously different from the people travelling out of London at 1620 or 1625.
I am more than happy to raise this with the schedulers as 15-30 does sound like quite a handful to inconvenience but also it is an issue because that's 30 extra seats (or people standing) on a 3, 5 or 6 car train (which is quite a lot considering how small these trains are). Thanks for bringing this to light.

Apologies if it's here somewhere, but for those who missed it at the time is there a link anywhere to whatever the new timetable proposals were, assuming anything was published?

I've attached the table 160 timetable for reference. Hopefully the link works. Let me know if it doesn't!

HowardGWR, from a personal perspective whilst removing the stop from either stations at Woking and Clapham Junction is disruptive to passenger flow, I would have to agree with you that Clapham Junction is a 'more important' stop. Being one of the busiest train stations in the country and the busiest interchange, having it lose its only link to the far West of England would cause a lot of issues for passengers traveling that way.

In the worst case scenario that you need to go from Exeter - Tisbury stations to Woking, then there will be a fairly frequent train service from Basingstoke which you can change over too. I know it's inconvenient, but it brings less issues in the wider picture to this scenario.
 

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FenMan

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The Dec 2020 timetable is proposed to speed up services, not the Dec 2018 timetable. Some services, such as the semi-fast Readings actually get slightly slower from December.

The semi-fast Readings will be even slower if future North Downs Line timings through Wokingham, as shown on Real Time Trains, are "real" (yes, I am well aware). A Gatwick - bound GWR is shown as departing from Platform 1 at the same time as a SWR to Reading is crossing the junction heading for Platform 2 ..........
 

infobleep

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I'm sure

The Dec 2020 timetable is proposed to speed up services, not the Dec 2018 timetable. Some services, such as the semi-fast Readings actually get slightly slower from December.

Thanks for that. So does that mean the December timetable is only temporary and in 2020 we will get another timetable as there will be improvements that allow more services?

HowardGWR, from a personal perspective whilst removing the stop from either stations at Woking and Clapham Junction, I would have to agree with you that Clapham Junction is a 'more important' stop. Being one of the busiest train stations in the country and the busiest interchange, having it lose its only link to the far West of England would cause a lot of issues for passengers traveling that way.

In the worst case scenario that you need to go from Exeter - Tisbury stations to Woking, then there will be a fairly frequent train service from Basingstoke which you can change over too. I know it's inconvenient, but it brings less issues in the wider picture to this scenario.

Not being able to stop trains at clapham Junction in there morning and evening peaks already cause a lot of issues for passengers traveling that way and the time periods are going to get even bigger. I'm aware why it currently needs to be the case and why they want to extend the gap but it's still the case regardless of the reasons for it being so.
 

infobleep

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So are the cancellations today a mix of guards taking industrial action and drivers issues that occur towards the end of the leave year or just drivers?
 

TEW

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In the worst case scenario that you need to go from Exeter - Tisbury stations to Woking, then there will be a fairly frequent train service from Basingstoke which you can change over too. I know it's inconvenient, but it brings less issues in the wider picture to this scenario.
I looked at this when it came up in the consultation. The connections at Basingstoke or Woking to/from Clapham Junction off the Exeter trains were far better than those to/from Woking at Basingstoke off the same trains, on the proposed timetables. The West of England services pick up a lot of traffic at both Clapham Junction and Woking in my experience, removing either stop is just stupidity.
The Woking-Basingstoke service will be 1tph fast (Salisbury service), 2tph semi-fast (Farnborough, Fleet) (Portsmouth via Eastleigh/Southampton service) and 2tph all stations (Basingstoke terminating services).
 

Kite159

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If that's the final version, there will be many complaints. Currently, after 1600 - when I guess the peak begins, since that's the point at which the Super Off-Peak Return stops being valid - there are nine trains that stop at Overton and Grateley: Waterloo departures from 1620 to 2020 inclusive. Thereafter it's an hourly service on the route. In the draft timetable, there were seven: 1655 to 1955 inclusive. The next one would be 2055. This represents a substantial worsening of the service, and having a more frequent service on Sundays doesn't compensate for it. I don't know how many alight from the 1620 at Grateley, but it's anything between 15 and 30 at Overton. So all those people will be adding to the new 1655.

The proposals did include a half-hourly service throughout the evening, but still only hourly to Overton and Grateley, and the later evening clientele is obviously different from the people travelling out of London at 1620 or 1625.

Current 16:20 from Waterloo, so roughly 17:36ish at Grateley, I would say quite a good number alighting [considering that GRT is sort of a railhead for other villages & Tidworth due to the large car parks]. There is normally a good few boarding at Basingstoke as well due to the time it reaches Basingstoke.
 

700007

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I looked at this when it came up in the consultation. The connections at Basingstoke or Woking to/from Clapham Junction off the Exeter trains were far better than those to/from Woking at Basingstoke off the same trains, on the proposed timetables. The West of England services pick up a lot of traffic at both Clapham Junction and Woking in my experience, removing either stop is just stupidity.
The Woking-Basingstoke service will be 1tph fast (Salisbury service), 2tph semi-fast (Farnborough, Fleet) (Portsmouth via Eastleigh/Southampton service) and 2tph all stations (Basingstoke terminating services).
Hmmm. That's a good point. As you said, removing either stop is disruptive but I think it was part of a franchise commitment to get journeys along the West of England quicker by a few minutes hence they 'have to' remove one of the stops, perhaps to the passenger's annoyance. I've seen and used the service a few times before Waterloo - Basingstoke, it is indeed very busy particularly on the pick ups at Clapham Junction (I myself have boarded there before). There's good connections at CLJ and the tickets are also quite a bit cheaper whilst avoiding Central London for an overall cheaper journey. Might explain why there's such a huge demand there.

The services leaving Basingstoke are a bit inconvenient in regards to their departure times in that aspect, I can agree with you. Even the present situation tends to have a few mishaps and poor connections. It's not just the Exeter line but also the services that run down to Weymouth, or connections between CrossCountry and the Exeter services too is quite poor from my experience. However, due to the vast array of calling patterns, so few paths and several destinations of trains, it's very difficult at certain stations to find a practical solution where better integration between lines can be provided.

I'm wondering if a deciding factor on the Woking call being dropped was to also free up capacity on this service. Whilst it was originally advertised as a 'pick-up', that in reality probably would have been no change from today where masses of people still go on and take the service to Woking as it is the fast train, using up more capacity on a fairly small, less frequent (hourly as opposed to most routes/destinations where it's at least half hourly) train doing the longest distance a single SWR service does (to Exeter from Waterloo). Clapham Junction doesn't tend to have the same issue.

Current 16:20 from Waterloo, so roughly 17:36ish at Grateley, I would say quite a good number alighting [considering that GRT is sort of a railhead for other villages & Tidworth due to the large car parks]. There is normally a good few boarding at Basingstoke as well due to the time it reaches Basingstoke.
Indeed, obviously not all traffic comes from London / Surrey. Local traffic around Hampshire has to be better accounted for as well.
 

TEW

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Hmmm. That's a good point. As you said, removing either stop is disruptive but I think it was part of a franchise commitment to get journeys along the West of England quicker by a few minutes hence they 'have to' remove one of the stops, perhaps to the passenger's annoyance. I've seen and used the service a few times before Waterloo - Basingstoke, it is indeed very busy particularly on the pick ups at Clapham Junction (I myself have boarded there before). There's good connections at CLJ and the tickets are also quite a bit cheaper whilst avoiding Central London for an overall cheaper journey. Might explain why there's such a huge demand there.

The services leaving Basingstoke are a bit inconvenient in regards to their departure times in that aspect, I can agree with you. Even the present situation tends to have a few mishaps and poor connections. It's not just the Exeter line but also the services that run down to Weymouth, or connections between CrossCountry and the Exeter services too is quite poor from my experience. However, due to the vast array of calling patterns, so few paths and several destinations of trains, it's very difficult at certain stations to find a practical solution where better integration between lines can be provided.

I'm wondering if a deciding factor on the Woking call being dropped was to also free up capacity on this service. Whilst it was originally advertised as a 'pick-up', that in reality probably would have been no change from today where masses of people still go on and take the service to Woking as it is the fast train, using up more capacity on a fairly small, less frequent (hourly as opposed to most routes/destinations where it's at least half hourly) train doing the longest distance a single SWR service does (to Exeter from Waterloo). Clapham Junction doesn't tend to have the same issue.
I really don't think overcrowding because of London to Woking passengers is a big issue on the Exeter trains. Woking gets a wide array of services, and people just catch the next available one. Many would be discouraged by the trains being advertised as pick up/set down only too. I think it was a franchise commitment to speed up journeys to Exeter, but it seems there may be flexibility with some of the other requirements following negative feedback, so why not here.
 

The Ham

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I've previously suggested that once electrification reaches Salisbury that the Basingstoke stoppers be extended to Salisbury calling at all stations. That would improve connections to Woking (in that you could travel direct from Salisbury), although it wouldn't assist those West of there as the Basingstoke stoppers leave just before the Exeter services (this would probably require a 5 minute so at Basingstoke for the stoppers to stop the Exeter services catching it if it is only a minute or two late, which would set it's departure from Salisbury about 15 minutes before the Exeter services).

As an aside, although relevant, the journey time from Clapham Junction to Exeter is broadly the same via Salisbury as it is via Reading. As such it's not surprising that it is well used from there, and therefore it also explains why that is probably being retained at the expense of Woking as a stop.

The other way that there would be a better service to Woking is once the Southern Approach to Heathrow is built as there'll be an extra 2tph between Basingstoke and Woking, these are likely to be between the semi fasts (which call at Fleet and Farnborough or just Farnborough) and the Basingstoke stoppers so that they could stop at, at the very least, Farnborough (personally I think that they should be a stopping service between Basingstoke and Woking as the time penalty would be fairly small as longer distance travelers are likely to change at Woking rather than Basingstoke if there's an option to do so).
 

emil

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There will be men and women on Mars before electrification reaches Salisbury.
It may happen CP7 (2024) or beyond but would have to be AC electrification and not DC from Basingstoke to Salisbury and Test Valley.
Page 84 of Network Rail Control Period 6 Wessex region Strategic plan document
 

thisisdash

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So these new ‘Virtual barriers’ have arrived at Chessington North.

This consists of two extra Oyster pads and 12 (yes 12) posters telling customers to buy before they board (see attached image). Yawn. This will do literally nothing for fare evasion on this line which is rife. :rolleyes:

C0367035-5AB7-4D9A-86CD-CA858563E1AA.jpeg 491E0900-94B2-4A8F-84D1-7358B71AF305.jpeg
 

700007

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In relation to Portsmouth – Southampton – Bristol, there’s an interesting hint about what that might mean in the draft of Table 160 issued by SWR for their consultation last autumn on timetable changes for December 2018.

At present, there are four SWR trains on Mondays – Fridays that go to Bristol. In the draft timetable there are five. The additional one is the 16.25 from Waterloo, which would split at Salisbury, with one portion continuing to Exeter and the other to Bristol.

In the table below, the centre column is the proposed 16.25 from Waterloo, and the right-hand column is an existing GWR all-stations train from Warminster to Bristol TM.

Drat! There isn't a table below, because this website won't paste a table from Word. So to summarise:-

The Bristol portion from the proposed 16.25 from Waterloo will depart from Salisbury at 17.58, Warminster 18.18, arrive Westbury 18.26. depart 18.28, arrive Bristol TM 19.11.

The current all-stations GWR service departs Warminster 18.18, arrive Westbury 18.26, depart 18.38, arrive Bristol TM 19.29.

The proposed SWR service will do the journey more quickly because of the shorter wait at Westbury and having fewer stops.

It is unlikely that SWR would have proposed running in part of the path of an existing GWR train without consulting them about it (relatively easy to do as both TOCs are run by First). There must also be a draft GWR timetable which shows the changes proposed to the GWR service. It will be interesting to see whether the term "optimise" in the quotation above means a better service for passengers or the more economical use of resources.

Hello 3141,

As promised, I've asked the lovely team at SWR in regards to this and the Grateley / Overton issue. To get anything done for the December 2018 timetable could be unlikely now. Obviously they're filtering through thousands of feedback from the three month consultation, so if it's been brought up as a response then it will, if possible be taken on board. In the event that it isn't, then nothing may be done yet as they need to be shipped off to Network Rail and DfT to approve shortly. Obviously December feels so long away but in railway terms it's only next week if you understand what I mean.

However, as you've said, if a lot of people do complain about it, and the managers themselves identify that it was a mistake to remove the stops at these two stations, then it may be re-implemented on the May 2019 timetable meaning unfortunately you might have to bear the grunt for 5 months.

The SWR and GWR team work together on any common section of track. There's some talk to optimise services particularly in relation to the MetroWest, Devon Metro and TransWilts concept coming into Westbury and also around the Heart of Wessex lines. Whilst I won't give too much away, there might be a bit of a shake-up in the timetable over the next year or two if they all kick in successfully, especially in areas where they may overlap.

I hope this response was useful.
 

Malcolmffc

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So these new ‘Virtual barriers’ have arrived at Chessington North.

This consists of two extra Oyster pads and 12 (yes 12) posters telling customers to buy before they board (see attached image). Yawn. This will do literally nothing for fare evasion on this line which is rife. :rolleyes:

View attachment 42878 View attachment 42879

Hello fellow Chessington North user! Yes, the “gate line” is laughable. They haven’t even bothered to put the posters within the old advertising spaces in the tiling properly.

Clearly SWR didn’t think it was worth the bother given they waited until the last possible date in their franchise agreement to do this.
 

dorsetdesiro

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Does anyone agree that service performance on South Western has worsened since the SWR takeover?
SWR recently received a slap on the wrist from Transport Focus and ORR.

I understand some of the problems would be down to Network Rail incompetence, ageing or neglected infrastructure and the strike actions instead of the TOC itself.

I am a regular user of the SW mainline between Poole & Weymouth, so wouldn't have experienced the inner & outer London networks where most of the problems and commuter complaints seem to be. SWT may have been a pretty good TOC but they weren't "whiter than white" they did have their fair share of criticism.

My experiences with SWT were really positive as they were rarely late, almost always on time and I couldn't find anything to fault them for. They may have been a primarily a London commuter railway but they did provide a really good local service here in rural Dorset. I didn't find my trips to Waterloo problematic with only slight delays at Clapham or Woking. There was only one time the delay at Brockenhurst was really bad because of a sucidical person on the line so SWT can't be blamed. I also used SWT for Honiton-Exeter, Romsey-Southampton also good service better than FGW.

I do remember travelling from Southampton to Bristol with FGW on a really old, I think, 150 which was unsuitable for intercity while the more comfortable SWT 158/9s sailed past! I understand GWR are now using 158s on this route.

Since the SWR takeover, it is becoming harder not to ignore the poor performance that I find myself checking the live times every day to see frequent delays coming from Waterloo (trains coming from Weymouth seem to be running OK most of the time) also seeing warning notices flashing up at the top of the SWR homepage then to sigh heavily. I honestly do not remember SWT being this unreliable.

SWR's timetable consultation unsurprisingly caused upset that some stations including mine may lose regular services.

It would be OK if my station continues to get 2 trains per hour, if the current 2 fast services are replaced by 1 stopping service (probably to Portsmouth) also keeping the 1 fast Waterloo train but it is being proposed to be cut to only 1 train per hour, a very slow stopping service to Waterloo...

I was surprised about 10 years ago when SWT removed 450s for local Wareham to Brockenhurst services, replacing this with the fast Waterloo services using 444s also carrying out this local service at the same time, this may have annoyed some Dorset commuters trying get to Waterloo quicker. Picture a 444 intercity train going down a single track!

I do ride my bike to work also taking this on the train which the cycle storage is useful but availability can be difficult in the summer as I work in a touristy part of Dorset that so many people all bringing their bikes at the station then jostle for spaces when the train arrives. There is no booking system at present, just turn up with your bike. But SWR are proposing to remove one cycle storage area on 444s during refurbishment in favour for more seating...

I will be going up to Edinburgh in May, already booked a seat with East Coast (may not be Virgin by then) and I thought of booking with SWR to Waterloo but because of the unreliability and more possible strike actions so I probably will book the coach to Victoria also it is cheaper. I would prefer to take the train but convenience has to come first this time. If SWT were still around now, I wouldn't consider about taking the coach.
 

Muzer

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I feel like SWT were degrading in their last ~year of operation, and SWR has seen a slight improvement over those latter SWT days but not up to earlier SWT standards. No idea how much is the TOC and how much Network Rail.
 

nlogax

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Not noticed a gigantic difference inbound from the 'burbs, but evening peak at Waterloo continues to feel a tad fragile (delays and cancellations) compared to before last summer's works. Maybe that's just a perception thing though - I've no comparative data to back up that assertion.
 

MG11

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I feel like SWT were degrading in their last ~year of operation, and SWR has seen a slight improvement over those latter SWT days but not up to earlier SWT standards. No idea how much is the TOC and how much Network Rail.
I think it's a lot to do with the communication between Network Rail and the TOC.
 

TEW

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Not noticed a gigantic difference inbound from the 'burbs, but evening peak at Waterloo continues to feel a tad fragile (delays and cancellations) compared to before last summer's works. Maybe that's just a perception thing though - I've no comparative data to back up that assertion.
I think people are just quick to forget. Initially after the Waterloo works, the infrastructure performance was dire, but it has now settled down. Peak performance on SWR/SWT has been bad for a long time, I don't think the Waterloo works have had much of a long term impact on that. I think SWT/NR were guilty of overselling the impact the works would have though, they were never really going to be the solution to all the problems. It is incredibly rare for either a morning peak or evening peak train to be on time on suburban routes via Wimbledon, and that has been the case for a long time.
 

DelW

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However, as you've said, if a lot of people do complain about it, and the managers themselves identify that it was a mistake to remove the stops at these two stations, then it may be re-implemented on the May 2019 timetable meaning unfortunately you might have to bear the grunt for 5 months.
I appreciate that there's no simple answer to this, but removing the Woking stops from West of England trains doesn't only affect passengers wanting to go to/from the Woking area itself, it's also the interchange point for the Heathrow Rail-Air bus, the northern half of the Portsmouth Direct, and the Alton line. Adding another interchange at Basingstoke is only going to act as a deterrent to passengers who have up to now transferred at Woking from/to direct WoE trains.
 

Muzer

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I feel like autumn 2016 was MUCH worse than autumn 2017. People are, indeed, quick to forget.
 

Wychwood93

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SWT morphs into SWR. In general the same staff at one level and different, ish, on another. NR staff the same. My view, by my own stats, would be that timekeeping etc. much the same. There are always upsets due to NR and TOC failures - neither the former or latter probably any worse than previously. Neither NR or SWR wants a problem!

The proposed timetable changes - I could rootle through my loft and show how they were from the 60's onwards - all I would say is that stopping patterns do change, we all know that. I am lucky my service from Christchurch has remained static (ish - please do not quibble on a year I have missed!) since '67 - two services p.hour each way with one to/from Waterloo and the other 'stopper' to and from a mad mix of Bournemouth, Wareham and Poole.

Wikipedia may not be the most reliable source of passenger numbers per station, we know that, but, perhaps a big but, is that that stats such as this give the detail that TOCs take in. As, I think, on another thread, give it a go and see what happens - they are running the business, not us.
 

3141

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Hello 3141,

As promised, I've asked the lovely team at SWR in regards to this and the Grateley / Overton issue. To get anything done for the December 2018 timetable could be unlikely now. Obviously they're filtering through thousands of feedback from the three month consultation, so if it's been brought up as a response then it will, if possible be taken on board. In the event that it isn't, then nothing may be done yet as they need to be shipped off to Network Rail and DfT to approve shortly. Obviously December feels so long away but in railway terms it's only next week if you understand what I mean.

However, as you've said, if a lot of people do complain about it, and the managers themselves identify that it was a mistake to remove the stops at these two stations, then it may be re-implemented on the May 2019 timetable meaning unfortunately you might have to bear the grunt for 5 months.

The SWR and GWR team work together on any common section of track. There's some talk to optimise services particularly in relation to the MetroWest, Devon Metro and TransWilts concept coming into Westbury and also around the Heart of Wessex lines. Whilst I won't give too much away, there might be a bit of a shake-up in the timetable over the next year or two if they all kick in successfully, especially in areas where they may overlap.

I hope this response was useful.

I'm most grateful to you for this post and for #4087 last Friday. (I haven't been looking on here so much in the past few days as I've been experiencing this year's flu bug. The jab wasn't effective!)

The feedback certainly included my own response and one from Overton Parish Council. There ought to have been one from Grateley Parish Council but I was unable to get a response from them when I raised the matter so I don't know. Overton Station's catchment area is more compact than Grateley's, but still includes passengers from places seven miles away such as Kingsclere.

I know that one of the objectives has been to shorten train journeys, but from looking at the draft timetable it doesn't appear that the omission of Overton and Grateley from the 16.25 (or from the 20.25) is for this reason. The Exeter portion of 16.25 departs from Salisbury at 17.50 and from Tisbury at 18.09. The Exeter portions of the 17.25, and of the next few xx.25s all of which do call at these stations, leave Salisbury at xx.56 and Tisbury at xx10. I think the real reason for proposing to omit these stops was the economic advantages of reducing the number of calls made there during the evening peak.

If the new timetable does leave out these stops the reaction will be much wider than the response to the consultation, and I'd fully understand it if the team dealing with this ask "So why didn't all these people respond to the consultation?" I'm not a daily traveller, and I found out about the consultation through this forum. There is a former parish councillor who is still the parish council's transport expert, and he hadn't heard about it till I told him. He has contacts with a small number of managers at SWR, and none of them had told him. Perhaps it wasn't part of their job, but I wonder whether it was part of anybody's job to publicise the consultation and make sure that everyone affected knew about it, or whether it was assumed that putting it on the website would do the trick. Some people have great faith in websites!

So thanks again for looking into this, and we'll see where we go when the December 2018 t.t. is published.
 

3141

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Whitchurch, Hampshire
I appreciate that there's no simple answer to this, but removing the Woking stops from West of England trains doesn't only affect passengers wanting to go to/from the Woking area itself, it's also the interchange point for the Heathrow Rail-Air bus, the northern half of the Portsmouth Direct, and the Alton line. Adding another interchange at Basingstoke is only going to act as a deterrent to passengers who have up to now transferred at Woking from/to direct WoE trains.

To add to that, for much of the day the rail/air coach departs from Woking at xx35. My current train from Overton misses it by about 10 minutes. Waiting for the next one makes the journey time uncompetitive compared with travelling via Waterloo. But the train from places west of Salisbury arrives only about 20 minutes before the coach is due to leave, so for passengers from further away it's a good connection. If the Woking stop is omitted from the Exeter trains, they are going to find the rail/air coach connection much more inconvenient.

There's an implication for Gatwick passengers too. If you need to get to Gatwick earlier in the day, when many long-distance trains don't call at Clapham Junction, and in future even fewer of them will, then you can reach Gatwick by changing at Woking and Guildford. Having to change at Basingstoke as well, at the time in the morning when you're less likely to get a seat there, will not enhance the customer experience.
 
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