New Spitfire Tours

[class 313]

Edited my first post.

But are you seriously telling me London tours are never fully booked? Because that really isn't true. In some cases it might be, not in all though.

 

[David]

Also its pretty funny how the people telling us to stop moaning don't actually live in London... But hey, if London got all the tours you lot would be moaning that there wasn't anything decent where you could get to.

I'll just sling my tuppence worth in again ....

I live in an area where very few tours originate. We have the odd tour from Cleethorpes (usually steam), but you don't hear me complaining. If there is a tour that I want to do, then I make the effort. Examples are ...

Get to Cardiff on a Friday for a tour on the Saturday, and going home on the Sunday. Doing the same for tours from London and Manchester. Also, driving down to Birmingham for a tour that was caped ....

Now, it may be coincidence, but the only tour that wasn't fully booked was the tour from London ....

 

[class 313]

I can complain if I want. Specially when I'm not happy with it. Its up to you to complain or not...

 

[me123]

There's a lot we can all complain about, Mr. Loader. Compared to a few things out there, your "problem" isn't really that big.

 

[class 313]

All I was saying is that there should be more 'rateable' tours in London. We're all allowed our opinions. Aren't we? That's what Max and Sulzer25 were saying. So why can't I?

 

[alex57601]

All I was saying is that there should be more 'rateable' tours in London. We're all allowed our opinions. Aren't we? That's what Max and Sulzer25 were saying. So why can't I?

And what would you define as "rateable" then?

How about pulling the finger out and starting your own crank tour originating in London, if you're that bothered. Failing that, at least go out and support what ever tours there are out of London, then perhaps it might increase the likelihood of a London-originating tour with traction you define as "rateable".

Railtour promoters aren't charities. If tours don't fill they don't run, and the chances of them doing the same again are slim, especially when you take into consideration more lucrative, money-spinning markets like NW England (I'd rather run two tours from there and make a profit rather than run x amount of tours from London to match or better the profit margins made elsewhere), and consider the current financial and economic climate.

 

[87015]

How about pulling the finger out and starting your own crank tour originating in London, if you're that bothered. Failing that, at least go out and support what ever tours there are out of London, then perhaps it might increase the likelihood of a London-originating tour with traction you define as "rateable".

You seriously suggesting he should put up the five-figure wad of cash he'd need as a new customer to WCRC or similar? You know hes in no position to do that FFS unless he has a mega rich family.

 

[class 313]

And what would you define as "rateable" then?

Not 67 after 67 after 67... Unless that floats your boat?

How about pulling the finger out and starting your own crank tour originating in London, if you're that bothered. Failing that, at least go out and support what ever tours there are out of London, then perhaps it might increase the likelihood of a London-originating tour with traction you define as "rateable".

Railtour promoters aren't charities. If tours don't fill they don't run, and the chances of them doing the same again are slim, especially when you take into consideration more lucrative, money-spinning markets like NW England (I'd rather run two tours from there and make a profit rather than run x amount of tours from London to match or better the profit margins made elsewhere), and consider the current financial and economic climate.

How about no.

I don't have that kind of money and I'd expect you don't either. Though I'm guessing this is just a post so you can jump on the wagon.

 

[alex57601]

You seriously suggesting he should put up the five-figure wad of cash he'd need as a new customer to WCRC or similar? You know hes in no position to do that FFS unless he has a mega rich family.

See my response to class 313 below.

I'd also add 'having the balls to do so', as organising and running railtours is no easy task and I know several people who do it, for which I have nothing but respect for them, especially when at times it would've been easier to throw in the towel and invest elsewhere. Believe me, if I had the time, money and the balls, I'd be running tours of my own!

How about no.

I don't have that kind of money and I'd expect you don't either. Though I'm guessing this is just a post so you can jump on the wagon.

I'm not jumping onto any bandwagon at all, I'm merely agreeing with the others. But seriously, if you don't like it take it in to your own hands, otherwise stop moaning and making a big drama out of it all.

 

[class 313]

otherwise stop moaning and making a big drama out of it all.

A big drama? All I said, was There should be more tours in the London area. How the hell is that making a drama out of it? Its people like you which make it out to be some kind of drama.

 

[alex57601]

A big drama? All I said, was There should be more tours in the London area. How the hell is that making a drama out of it? Its people like you which make it out to be some kind of drama.

Excuse me?

Your earlier post said, and I quote you: "We need some more London tours". To me, that suggests you're making it sound as though it's a bad thing, and your moaning in posts after that backs my argument up very well.

We all like tours to start on our doorsteps. I for one am privileged to be living in a part of the country where a very good selection has served from in recent years, along with having a selection of excellent tours on my doorstep, but even I accept that we can't have them all and I go out and support a few where I can.

Simple fact of the matter is that if there aren't many crank tours from London then it's a simple indicator that the market isn't there (as Spitfire's recent Waterloo tour proved, and I would love to know how far passengers for that one travelled to do it) and that railtour promoters will start tours elsewhere, where there are bigger markets and have proven themselves time and time again. Like I said earlier, support what ever tours there are out of London and it might make it more likely that a crank tour will be on offer.

What I have said is based on basic business practice, and which parts of that can't you understand?

Also if people are to take you more seriously, you can start by abstaining from posting cheeky comments like "How about no" and "It's people like you..."

 

[David]

A big drama? All I said, was There should be more tours in the London area. How the hell is that making a drama out of it? Its people like you which make it out to be some kind of drama.

No, we don't make a big drama out of it ....

Every time a tour company announces new tours, you pipe up and say there should be more from London.

Unless I can stay at a friends for a day or 2, then it is very unlikely that I will go on a tour starting/finishing in London as it simply too expensive. I have to get to London (£70, going upto £75ish) in January), a hotel for 2 nights and food.

A tour starting in/near Manchester or Lancashire is a lot cheaper for me, and probably for the tour companies themselves.

You have to remember costs do come into the equasion as well. Paths around London are at a premium, so they will cost more. Stabling the stock and loco(s) overnight at a depot in/near London will cost more as well, as the available space is at a premium.

Add in the fact that DRS are based at Carlisle and Crewe, and WCRC are based in Carnforth, you have long (and costly) light engine or ECS moves. These will push up the price of tours which make them more unattractive for people who have to travel to London.

 

[37412]

A big drama? All I said, was There should be more tours in the London area.

You keep saying there should be more tours from London but having looked at your youtube this year there have been several 37 tours from London, two buffer puffers starting and finishing on your doorstep in London, neither of which you did but were happy to video meanwhile those of us who live over a 100 miles north of London travelled down to travel on one of them (was originally booked on both but flagged the second one for the spitfire). In May Past-time ran a London - Carlisle tour with a 92 (according to the favourite electrics poll your favourite electric) as far as Donny RMT, over the S&C with a pair of 37's and back over the tyne valley and then down the ECML back to Kings Cross meaning it finished on your doorstep in London, did you do that tour? I don't think you did, I did though and then had to travel back north to my house afterwards after an overnight stop. Maybe we therefore have uncovered why tours don't tend to start in London, because all those who moan there arn't enough London starters are the ones who go and stand on the end of the platform and phot/video the tour which is full of Northern folk who have travelled down for it?!

 

[theblackwatch]

Not 67 after 67 after 67... Unless that floats your boat?

See my post earlier about tours out of London in December/January - you can have Classes 52, 59, 60, 66, 86 or 90, 92 and 201 on tours from London on four separate trains. Not enough?

 

[richa2002]

This thread is just a victimisation session. Get the keys out...

 

[theblackwatch]

This thread is just a victimisation session. Get the keys out...

Not at all. Some of us have merely pointed out that there is plenty of traction variety out of London, and provided suitable evidence to back these up.

 

[alex57601]

This thread is just a victimisation session. Get the keys out...

How is it a victimisation session when it's merely pointing out who's talking rubbish and posting the facts?

Perhaps if Mr Loader wasn't so quick to demand more tours from London, perhaps he wouldn't be in such a big hole.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

sorry i'd just like to add a point about local starting points (or calling ones). Im not on the bandwagon about London, so i'll step off the YCV wagons and get on the HAA wagon

Anyway, more to the point, there can be cases where a local point can be difficult one as well! Take the Alloa tour, starting only 20 miles or so away, and yet I had to stay at BTM overnight to get home. I don't drive so it was a long wait until the first train back to Trowbridge. I'm not moaning or saying I done it and should get a medal just pointing out that even a local one can get back so late that you have to stay overnight, unless you drive or have someone who can take you back.

There is one to the mersey area starting at Bristol in January, using 66s only and gets back to Bristol at 23:10, just in time to see the 23:10 back to Trowbridge depart, unless the tour runs early!


Cheers,

James.

 

[richa2002]

Not at all. Some of us have merely pointed out that there is plenty of traction variety out of London, and provided suitable evidence to back these up.

Nothing really that interesting though which is the issue. Never mind though. More to life than arguing on a forum.

 

[theblackwatch]

So its not just "apart from 67s", it's apart from "52, 59, 60, 66, 67, 86 or 90, 92 and 201". Feel free to add more classes to your list....

 

[richa2002]

59, 60, 66, 67, 86, 90 or 92 aren't exactly full of thrash... I've had it with forum bickering though.

 

[alex57601]

59, 60, 66, 67, 86, 90 or 92 aren't exactly full of thrash... I've had it with forum bickering though.

But at the same time with a line up like that, how could one possibly argue that there isn't a good selection?

 

[Techniquest]

sorry i'd just like to add a point about local starting points (or calling ones). Im not on the bandwagon about London, so i'll step off the YCV wagons and get on the HAA wagon

Anyway, more to the point, there can be cases where a local point can be difficult one as well! Take the Alloa tour, starting only 20 miles or so away, and yet I had to stay at BTM overnight to get home. I don't drive so it was a long wait until the first train back to Trowbridge. I'm not moaning or saying I done it and should get a medal just pointing out that even a local one can get back so late that you have to stay overnight, unless you drive or have someone who can take you back.

There is one to the mersey area starting at Bristol in January, using 66s only and gets back to Bristol at 23:10, just in time to see the 23:10 back to Trowbridge depart, unless the tour runs early!


Cheers,

James.

That's so true with regards to the Alloa tour for you. I have the same problem with tours up the Marches usually, in that they call at awkward times for me to get there for, usually impossible without getting someone to do a 42 mile round trip to drop me off. Then there's the tour ching itself, usually out of my budget. Then there's the supplies on the day (I rarely factor in a food and drink budget for the day, but it certainly helps mount the cost of a day out up). Then there's whether I can get back for the last bus home.

Again, I've made it onto tours that I wanted to do that didn't start anywhere near me. I travelled something like 310 miles to Linlithgow (well, more probably in the end due to the landslide in Queen Street Tunnel), just for a tour to the Far North. Not including the 21 miles on the bus to Hereford that is too. I had really wanted to do it though, so I made the effort, even though it involved an overnight stay in a hostel in Edinburgh. Then it was another 310 or so miles back to Hereford then about 21 miles on the bus back home. So I travelled more miles to do the tour than I covered on the tour itself!

But the best for local-ish tours has to be The Airean Raider. Starting in Cardiff, but at 0545. No chance in hell of making it, not even to Birmingham. So it was an overnighter after a day of work involving the last HST to Swansea and first one back. The night after the tour was an overnight in Swansea too in the cafe, coach to Cardiff and various leaps then before going home. Just for a tour starting about 75 miles from my house. I loved the tour, it was amazing and it was well worth the effort being made to do it.

I'd like to see these people that moan there's not enough tours from London make the effort to go halfway across the country for a tour, doing a rancid overnighter before/after the tour or even before and after the tour. That, my friends, is a true 21st century man of steel.

 

[David]

This thread is just a victimisation session. Get the keys out...

I don't see it that way. 1 member has dug himself into a hole by moaning there isn't a quintuple headed 37 hauling 3x319s starting every day in London (not his exact words, but he froths about them all the time). Everyone else has merely pointed out the fact there is in fact a wide variety of traction on various tours around London.

 

[5872]

Sadly with the opposition, I agree with class313; the last London one was September; and I was on it!.

 

[33011]

I don't really want this thread locked so if there is a problem maybe it could be edited.Getting back on topic anyone intrested in doing any of these?I am going to do the Fellsman Chopper i have only had 2 pairs before 20117+20121 on a Wessex Wanderer and 2O307+20310 on Spitfires Wey-farer and have Grown quite fond of these little machines and as a added bonus they sound simular to my native southern Thumpers.

 

[RJ]

This thread is just a victimisation session. Get the keys out...

Why is it always the same people getting victimised? Perhaps it's to do with the constant bullsh*t these people post?

The likelihood of farce is what puts me off pre-booking on any out of London tours. I don't particularly care who's to blame when I've shelled out for travel/hotels to get from London to Linlithgow for a Deltic tour, only for the Deltic to be pulled for whatever reason. On the other occasion I got on a tour which didn't start from London (37667/688 Brum - Carlisle in March), delays meant I had to bail much earlier than planned so I could make a skin-of-the-teeth connection for the last train back to London so I could do my shift at work the following morning.

It's ok if the farce doesn't cause any problems for me, so as long the tour drops me back to London, I'll be happy to do it. At the end of the day, I don't have a compulsion to do railtours so I don't really mind if there aren't many that start from London. I've done some part fares which include the 33 out of Waterloo and the 47s from Willesden - Stratford via Reading Lane Jn and Liverpool Street as they were of paticular interest, and I like doing Buffer Puffers and Silverlink Swansong type tours. In other words, the correct balance of decent (or bearable at the very least) traction and an appealing route, that starts and ends in London, is what will attract my custom.

 

[class 313]

I don't see it that way. 1 member has dug himself into a hole by moaning there isn't a quintuple headed 37 hauling 3x319s starting every day in London (not his exact words, but he froths about them all the time). Everyone else has merely pointed out the fact there is in fact a wide variety of traction on various tours around London.

Oh shut up for gods sake man. There was no need for that little addition and you know it would wind me up. Trolling if anything. As you could see I refrained from posting in here because I thought it would move it more onto topic. But some of you seem to just want to add your two pence in. Tbh It only needs one of you to tell me. Its like kicking a person whilst he's down. No need for it.

 

[RJ]

I don't see it that way. 1 member has dug himself into a hole by moaning there isn't a quintuple headed 37 hauling 3x319s starting every day in London (not his exact words, but he froths about them all the time). Everyone else has merely pointed out the fact there is in fact a wide variety of traction on various tours around London.

Well said that man

 

[alex57601]

Oh shut up for gods sake man. There was no need for that little addition and you know it would wind me up. Trolling if anything. As you could see I refrained from posting in here because I thought it would move it more onto topic. But some of you seem to just want to add your two pence in. Tbh It only needs one of you to tell me. Its like kicking a person whilst he's down. No need for it.

Perhaps if you stop being rude and talking out of your ars€, you won't be having people's opinions rammed down your throat. :roll: