New stations for Leeds

[yorksrob]

I'd like to think that Platform W was a link to the past, as the former "goods" platform was originally part of Leeds Wellington Street.
But I think the original intention was for reopening the existing two "goods" platforms between W and (old) 1 as platforms X and Y.

Those platforms were new build. The area had been full of rusting sidings before the station redevelopment.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

White Rose Centre station is planned more as P&R and bus/rail interchange facility than shopping station.

Demolish the pointless shopping centre and there might be room for a car park then... Still no room for another station between Morley and Cottingley, nor room on the trains for any more passengers. :roll:

 

[Mr Mean]

Demolish the pointless shopping centre and there might be room for a car park then... Still no room for another station between Morley and Cottingley, nor room on the trains for any more passengers. :roll:

I was at the white rose on Saturday. Absolutely heaving with virtually no free car parking. Buses full from all over west Yorks. Definitely not a pointless shipping centre, even less so now the cinema / restaurants are opening. The office area also continues to grow with more and more workers.

I'd close cottingley and open white rose in its place with a well lit, secure footpath from the new station over to the cottingley area (max 5 mins walk). A passing loop would be useful, but not necessarily needed if some tpx services stopped there.

In my opinion if service levels were decent, the station would prove very popular.

 

[Spartacus]

The trouble with having a station for the White Rose Centre is that if you're on the train already why would you not just go to Leeds which has even more choice of shops? About the only thing extra it offers is cover and warmth in the winter although if people had arrived on the train and had their coats & jumper on the warmth might be appreciated.

I can't see much point in stopping expresses there even if there was a station, that might be useful for Dewsbury, notwithstanding the point I've already made about Leeds, but would many come from Huddersfield or Leeds to the White Rose? I know people who go to the White Rose from the other side of Huddersfield and say it's quicker getting there than into town, there's no way they'd drive into Huddersfield to catch the train to the White Rose. The White Rose just needs another level of parking to the rear, especially now that the extension's been built reducing the amount of parking. Quite frankly I can't believe that was allowed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was at the white rose on Saturday. Absolutely heaving with virtually no free car parking. Buses full from all over west Yorks. Definitely not a pointless shipping centre, even less so now the cinema / restaurants are opening. The office area also continues to grow with more and more workers.

I'd close cottingley and open white rose in its place with a well lit, secure footpath from the new station over to the cottingley area (max 5 mins walk). A passing loop would be useful, but not necessarily needed if some tpx services stopped there.

In my opinion if service levels were decent, the station would prove very popular.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right or good. Leeds city centre is probably the premier retail destination outside of London. The White Rose Centre is always going to be 3rd-best in the north after Leeds and Meadowhall. If I'd just bought one of those new houses next to Cottingley station I'd be pretty annoyed to find that services were to be cut or the station closed- the presence of the station probably inflated the prices of those houses.

The trouble with having a station for the White Rose Centre is that if you're on the train already why would you not just go to Leeds which has even more choice of shops? About the only thing extra it offers is cover and warmth in the winter although if people had arrived on the train and had their coats & jumper on the warmth might be appreciated.

I can't see much point in stopping expresses there even if there was a station, that might be useful for Dewsbury, notwithstanding the point I've already made about Leeds, but would many come from Huddersfield or Leeds to the White Rose? I know people who go to the White Rose from the other side of Huddersfield and say it's quicker getting there than into town, there's no way they'd drive into Huddersfield to catch the train to the White Rose. The White Rose just needs another level of parking to the rear, especially now that the extension's been built reducing the amount of parking. Quite frankly I can't believe that was allowed.

This. The problem with WRC is that it is a very car-centric way of shopping. Anyone with access to a car will use the car, no matter how much the public transport options are gold-plated. As out-of-town malls go, Meadowhall and Trafford Centre are probably "too big to fail" but the White Rose Centre isn't. It's an outdated and unsustainable way of doing retail. The offices surrounding will only produce traffic in the peaks, for the most part... and then we're back at the problem of finding room on the trains for those people.

But still, the elephant in the room is that the railway is full. The only reason we're even talking about a station for WRC is that Leeds City Council couldn't organise a celebration in a factory that makes party-poppers, and they've ended up with Trolleybus money burning a hole in their pockets. As for the White Rose Centre getting an extension, I'm not going to be so bold as to suggest that brown envelopes have greased any wheels, but if in 10-20 years we find out that they did? Well, I won't be surprised! :roll:

 

[HowardGWR]

^^^ Why close Cottingley? There are 1.5 kms between there and WRC. Why not have both.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

^^^ Why close Cottingley? There are 1.5 kms between there and WRC. Why not have both.

Because THE RAILWAY IS FULL!

Apologies to you, HowardGWR for using your post to make this point- I know you're one of the more reasonable posters on here: certainly more reasonable than me! I'm just fed up of the weird situation brought up by the people making decisions about my local line: one the one hand we can't get a seat and we're losing our local service because the line is full; yet on the other hand we have a local authority (One which dominates the PTE) planning a station that nobody needs on an already congested railway.

It's like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing! :roll:

 

[bluenoxid]

So have we got any evidence that this station is definitely being put on the Huddersfield line? I’m leaving this link here that provides no help whatsoever (literally no help at all)

http://westyorkshire.moderngov.co.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=134&MId=559

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So have we got any evidence that this station is definitely being put on the Huddersfield line? I’m leaving this link here that provides no help whatsoever (literally no help at all)

http://westyorkshire.moderngov.co.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=134&MId=559

If it's going on the Doncaster line calling it White Rose Centre is disingenuous when that's not the closest railway line to the centre, though probably a better place for it. If it's on that line, "Beeston Parkway for White Rose Centre" would be a better name.

You'd probably need to spend a fair bit on a long covered aerial walkway to link the station to the centre too, as well as to cross the busy A650.

 

[xotGD]

If it's going on the Doncaster line calling it White Rose Centre is disingenuous when that's not the closest railway line to the centre, though probably a better place for it. If it's on that line, "Beeston Parkway for White Rose Centre" would be a better name.

You'd probably need to spend a fair bit on a long covered aerial walkway to link the station to the centre too, as well as to cross the busy A650.

Let's have a new station on both lines, with a maglev linking them, the shopping centre and the office park...

 

[takno]

Let's have a new station on both lines, with a maglev linking them, the shopping centre and the office park...

Maglev is dreadfully old tech. You really need a hyperloop into the city centre

 

[xotGD]

So have we got any evidence that this station is definitely being put on the Huddersfield line? I’m leaving this link here that provides no help whatsoever (literally no help at all)

http://westyorkshire.moderngov.co.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=134&MId=559

I have asked a Leeds city councillor, and was advised that the station will definitely be on the Huddersfield line.

 

[Tractor37]

Those platforms were new build. The area had been full of rusting sidings before the station redevelopment.

The current platform 1 was the old PCD platform. Platforms 2 and 3 were new build and platform 4 was the old platform 1. Wouldn't say full of rusting sidings.

 

[lejog]

Just noticed that the latest version of the CP5 Enhancements Delivery Plan has more details of planned Leeds Station Capacity Upgrades (with target completion dates into CP6!).

• Phase 1 Recontrol of the signalling control system to the York Rail Operating Centre (ROC) (31st Dec 2019)
• Phase 2 The relocking of 8No. existing signalling interlockings toprovide additional signalling capacity (31st Dec 2020)
• Phase 3 A new 8-car platform (platform 0) and longer train standages on platforms 6. Track remodelling to the West end of the station to
provide greater operational flexibility. Associated resignalling (31st Dec 2021)
• Phase 4 Development phase to be undertaken as part of Transpennine Route Upgrade (31st Dec 2018)(Do they mean 2022?)

 

[yorksrob]

The current platform 1 was the old PCD platform. Platforms 2 and 3 were new build and platform 4 was the old platform 1. Wouldn't say full of rusting sidings.

Where platforms 2 and 3 are was.

 

[Bevan Price]

A regular rail service from York to Manchester via Castleford, Wakefield and Huddersfield avoiding Leeds would be very useful and ease pressure on the Church Fenton-Leeds-Dewsbury-Ravensthorpe corridor. Surprisingly, not all the world wants to travel to Leeds.
.

That is almost what the L&YR, then LMSR used to run, except that it ran from Manchester Victoria to York via Rochdale & Hebden Bridge, rather than via Huddersfield, then Wakefield & Castleford. There were even (few) through trains to Newcastle.

 

[Iskra]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leeds-41654565?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=59e6efcbe4b0df0fea8c36d1&Ambitious plans could see Leeds station double in size&&ns_fee=0#post_59e6efcbe4b0df0fea8c36d1

"Ambitious plans could see Leeds station double in size


A £500m plan to double the size of Leeds Railway Station could get the go-ahead later today.


Stephen Craven/Geograph
A new blueprint is being discussed by officials which would see the site extended south ahead of the planned HS2 high speed route coming to the city.

The proposals are being considered because the number of passengers using Leeds station - which currently stands at about 100,000 passengers per day - is set to double in the next 30 years."

- - - -
£500m seems quite cheap for doubling it's current size. I assume that doesn't include track and signalling costs?

 

[lejog]

Leeds City Council are discussing "a set of principles to act as a blueprint of the station redevelopment masterplan" rather than giving any go-ahead, which is years away. Doubling in size is mainly due to the HS2 station - although extension of the concourse over Bishopgate is a possibility, there appears to be little extension of the existing trainshed. There is a more descriptive article at http://news.leeds.gov.uk/senior-cou...mbitious-leeds-station-remodelling-blueprint/, including an interesting hi-res image which may be downloaded (far too large to post here!). Edit: looking at the image it isn't clear what will happen to the car park north of the station, this may be converted to new west facing bays.

A range of principles to guide the remodelling of Leeds Station into a transport hub of international significance at the heart of the Northern Powerhouse are to be discussed by senior councillors next week.

A report to be discussed by Leeds City Council’s executive board on Wednesday 18 October proposes a set of principles to act as a blueprint of the station redevelopment masterplan. This aims to realise the potential of the station as an integrated transport hub, boosting regional connectivity and maximising the benefits of high-speed HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail services for Leeds and the wider region.

The principles set out the ambition for the station to become a key national landmark and transport interchange, as well as a pivotal regeneration and economic driver and asset for the city and region.

They have been set out by Leeds City Council working with partners including HS2 Ltd, Network Rail, West Yorkshire Combined Authority, Transport for the North, Department for Transport and the Department of Communities and Local Government.

Leeds Station is already the busiest transport hub in the north of England, and the overall aims set out for its future are for it to be: A world-class hub featuring quality architecture and design; a distinctive gateway into Leeds and the wider region; a destination station being an attractive place to visit where the South Bank meets City Square and; a connected place where national, regional, and local transport services meet and are integrated together.

Among the elements proposed in the masterplan are:

• To create a station campus district for high-quality commercial, residential and leisure developments offering seamless access to and from the station
• Multiple entrance points, with City Square becoming predominantly public space, New Station Street to become pedestrianised with shared public space being extended onto Bishopgate Street
• Entrance points to and from South Bank, including creating a new pedestrian route similar in scale to Briggate connecting Temple Works and Leeds Dock
• A new central common concourse in the station connecting HS2, Northern Powerhouse Rail and existing rail services, with an overbridge structure offering access to all other platforms
• Neville Street and the Dark Arches to be transformed into retail and leisure spaces
• A new footbridge at Bridgewater Road and improved pedestrian and cycling links across the River Aire
• Additional rail platforms to meet increases in demand
• Potential for a new roof to offer improve lighting across the station
• Access for all modes of transport, multiple pick-up and drop-off points, a priority focus on disabled provision in all areas, new car parking and a new cycling hub. It also includes flexibility in planning to incorporate a future mass or rapid-transit service for Leeds

The investment levels to implement the proposals in the report would be in excess of £500million. Major investment in the station is already underway, as seen by the southern entrance which opened last year and the private investment by Bruntwood in redeveloping the Platform building next to the main station entrance.

The planning and design remodelling work for Leeds Station is being led by world-renowned development experts Atkins, who have led a consortium of leading global design, engineering and project management consultants. They include Gensler’s lead for transport and infrastructure Hiro Aso, who was the lead architect behind the acclaimed redevelopment of King’s Cross Station in London.

 

[yorksrob]

Wasn't the HS2 station supposed to occupy the space to the South of the station (albeit at right angles).

 

[edwin_m]

Wasn't the HS2 station supposed to occupy the space to the South of the station (albeit at right angles).

Yes, and as revised a couple of years ago the HS2 platforms were moved north so the buffer stops are not far from the back of platform 16. However I think this will need a squarish deck over the middle part of the existing through platforms, accessing HS2 platforms from its south side and existing ones from east or west or both. Some kind of descent to ground level is also needed to provide entrance/exit and access to the northern concourse, which is presumably retained for historic reasons and serves however many bays are built on that side.

The masterplan linked above seems to align with this proposal but as mentioned (and as usual with masterplans) it's more about how the surrounding area will be changed rather than the station itself.