New strike regulation possible

[sprunt]

I have no doubt that right wing Tories are determined to see universal DOO in due course. It can't be achieved overnight so the inter-city TOCs will be left alone for now.

What would DOO mean on the inter-city TOCs - the removal of the train manager? I wouldn't have thought the TOCs would want that, as it seems from the outside that on-train ticket checks would be more important to their revenue than for local services. If people knew there was nobody going to look at their ticket once they'd got on the train, what's to stop them travelling in first class with a standard class ticket, or just travelling on any train they wanted with an advance ticket? While they obviously can't take class of travel into account, do ticket barriers take the time of a reservation associated with an advance ticket into account when deciding whether to let people through?

 

[pemma]

Aren't they employees of us, the people ? Much as they seem to forget who's supposed to be serving whom, most of the time

Not really, their job is to represent us and their salaries are funded by us. However, if they were our employees we would write their employment contracts, we would decide when they get pay rises and how much they would get, we would decide their holidays, we could discipline them or make them redundant at any time (not just when an election is called) etc. It's more like we are their customers and every few years we get the chance to choose an alternative supplier if we're unhappy with the service.

 

[philthetube]

Have said this many times but what is needed is for negotiations in a strike situation to have to be held in public. Advantages:-

1) Companies and unions cannot lie about what the dispute is about.

2) The press is fully aware of everything and so the public will be properly informed.

3) Members of unions will not feel they are being led up the garden path by unions pursuing political agendas and will know if they are being properly represented in ways which will benefit them.

Both sides having to be open and honest would greatly reduce the numbers of strikes

 

[Northhighland]

Have said this many times but what is needed is for negotiations in a strike situation to have to be held in public. Advantages:-

1) Companies and unions cannot lie about what the dispute is about.

2) The press is fully aware of everything and so the public will be properly informed.

3) Members of unions will not feel they are being led up the garden path by unions pursuing political agendas and will know if they are being properly represented in ways which will benefit them.

Both sides having to be open and honest would greatly reduce the numbers of strikes

Sorry mate but if you think the press would accurately report on any dispute then you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Problem here is you can't legislate away bad industrial relations. Fundamentally any business needs its workforce on-side if it is to flourish. You cant make people deliver their best using a stick. They have to want to deliver their best effort. More laws wont do any good at all for the passenger.

Fundamentally the way both sides conduct their business needs to change, other ways need to be found to sort out issues.

 

[Robertj21a]

Sorry mate but if you think the press would accurately report on any dispute then you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Problem here is you can't legislate away bad industrial relations. Fundamentally any business needs its workforce on-side if it is to flourish. You cant make people deliver their best using a stick. They have to want to deliver their best effort. More laws wont do any good at all for the passenger.

Fundamentally the way both sides conduct their business needs to change, other ways need to be found to sort out issues.

Good, sensible, response. Thank you.

 

[greyman42]

Sorry mate but if you think the press would accurately report on any dispute then you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Problem here is you can't legislate away bad industrial relations. Fundamentally any business needs its workforce on-side if it is to flourish. You cant make people deliver their best using a stick. They have to want to deliver their best effort. More laws wont do any good at all for the passenger.

Fundamentally the way both sides conduct their business needs to change, other ways need to be found to sort out issues.

Why do you think that the press/media would not report accurately on a dispute if the minutes of the meeting were available to the public. Would they not loose all credibility if they were to do so?

 

[Carlisle]

Sorry mate but if you think the press would accurately report on any dispute then you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Problem here is you can't legislate away bad industrial relations. Fundamentally any business needs its workforce on-side if it is to flourish. You cant make people deliver their best using a stick. They have to want to deliver their best effort. More laws wont do any good at all for the passenger.

Fundamentally the way both sides conduct their business needs to change, other ways need to be found to sort out issues.

There’s a bit more to it, passenger rail services are mostly a complete monopoly public service usually provided by only a single operator, so the relative simplicity of strikes offering fairly widespread and immediate disruption make them a much more attractive option than they otherwise might be in most industries.

Countries like France & Italy etc with no recent history of a desire to repress workers rights or trade unionism in general wouldn’t have bothered passing such legislation if that weren’t clearly the case, they’d have simply recruited a few nicer bosses, and been done with it .

 

[pt_mad]

It seems the railways have become today's version of the miners strikes. In that theyre a high profile industry serving the public and the strikes become very centre stage. Again it's the government on the opposite side to the union members but this time the public don't have too much sympathy for the workers.

Was coal at a shortage during the miners strike and did this affect the public as in they struggled to heat their homes? Or was coal out of demand by then?

It seems as soon as it affects the customer their support is lost. However if direct negotiation and action short of a strike has not achieved a resolution then what other alternative is there for union members?

There would literally be no point in being in a union if they weren't prepared to hold a ballot for strike action when there is suggestion of a serious threat to members stability, security and staffing levels and workers rights as a whole.

The public may resent that the railway is still highly unionised compared to many modern industries, offices, financial services, distribution, manufacturing nowadays. But all workers have the right to join an effective union and rail staff should not be resented just because their level of membership is enough for the union to have to be recognised by the employer. This is just sensible, especially when they are working in a safety critical environment on a daily basis.

If you threatened the career of an office worker, I would think that they too would want to do all they could to protect their job, their standards and their terms. And the level of staffing within their business. Surely they wouldn't just roll over, accept new contracts with whatever terms the company dictated and with no guarantees their job is even needed? And if they said, the business can now operate with or without your job role, how would they feel? Exactly the same as the majority of rail staff who are involved in the ongoing disputes.


If you had a factory shop floor, and the business was making good profits, and they wrote to employees saying we are proposing bringing in robots to do the skilled part of your job. Those who wish to leave the business can do. Those who remain will be on new terms and will work in packing, as we don't need you on manufacture anymore. And when the workers leave, we won't replace them as we can use agency staff to do the packing and we can't guarantee the factory roles will be needed long term.
Would they just roll over and take that? Would they even admit to objecting? Would they join a union? If they were in one, would they say 'no, we mustn't have a vote for action as we'd be letting the customers of the business down'? I suggest they'd blame the business. It's doubtful they'd just just carry on regardless in order to protect the interests of the customer.
Sone passengers of the Railway will work in businesses like this, but aren't thinking about if the boot were on the other footand it was their job and terms at risk. Because it's often a case of protect my own bubble and that's it.

 

[pemma]

but this time the public don't have too much sympathy for the workers.

Reason being the coal miners were put out of work with very few options to move to another industry, while rail workers have employment guarantees without even having to change industry.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

What would DOO mean on the inter-city TOCs - the removal of the train manager? I wouldn't have thought the TOCs would want that, as it seems from the outside that on-train ticket checks would be more important to their revenue than for local services. If people knew there was nobody going to look at their ticket once they'd got on the train, what's to stop them travelling in first class with a standard class ticket, or just travelling on any train they wanted with an advance ticket? While they obviously can't take class of travel into account, do ticket barriers take the time of a reservation associated with an advance ticket into account when deciding whether to let people through?

Inter-city DOO would certainly mean the role of the train manager being reduced to a non-safety critical one meaning less pay, at least in the long-term. As the new role would be more like a glorified shop-keeper it's inevitable that the pay reduction would be considerable. Currently Inter-city guards are the best paid in the industry. A future DOO Inter-city on-board staff member would likely be on more or less the same money as those in equivalent posts at other TOCs.