New Thameslinky Trains - Tables ?

Status
Not open for further replies.

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
30,295
Location
Yorks
Travelled down to Brighton on one of the new Thameslink trains. Was delighted to find seatback tables. Excellent I thought, great for the trip back.

Gets on another new Thameslinky train for the journey back - almost identical - but no seatback tables.

What gives !
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
4,683
Location
Northern England
The Department for Transport originally specced them without tables - following disappointment from passengers they are (or were, at least) being slowly retrofitted, or possibly were added to the later built units when they were still in the factory, can't remember which.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
26,399
Travelled down to Brighton on one of the new Thameslink trains. Was delighted to find seatback tables. Excellent I thought, great for the trip back.

Gets on another new Thameslinky train for the journey back - almost identical - but no seatback tables.

What gives !
Nothing’s changed recently, at a late stage of the build they decided to fit tables. But as far as I know they never authorised retrofit on earlier trains.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
30,295
Location
Yorks
Nothing’s changed recently, at a late stage of the build they decided to fit tables. But as far as I know they never authorised retrofit on earlier trains.

I suppose better late than never then !

The funny thing is, I don't dislike things.

Obviously they're no phase 1 CIG (The gold standard) and the seats need more padding, but there seem to be a fair few good window seats and at least some have tables.
 
Last edited:

Andrew S

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2018
Messages
140
Obviously you can go in the declassified First Class at the back of the train to guarantee getting a table.
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
9,032
Rear carriage of the 700s is always declassified.

Tables weren’t spec’d on the original order but GN passengers kicked off about the lack of tables as it was a downgrade over 365s they replaced.

Tables were then added to newer builds. I thought they were being retrofitted to the whole fleet but this hasn’t happened.
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
9,032
The tables weren’t the only downgrade over the 365s but that’s history now.

Just happen to by typing this while on the final 365...
 

physics34

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
3,271
still furious about the interior spec on the 700, but i think ive bored myself to tears with my wingeing about it. maybe have to wait for a mid life refurbishment to see any improvements. They shouldve got the jist after the lukewarm response to the first unit when it was displayed at that german railexpo event.
 

Minstral25

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2009
Messages
1,376
Location
Surrey
Rear carriage of the 700s is always declassified.

Tables weren’t spec’d on the original order but GN passengers kicked off about the lack of tables as it was a downgrade over 365s they replaced.

Tables were then added to newer builds. I thought they were being retrofitted to the whole fleet but this hasn’t happened.

I can assure you Southern passengers did a very loud kicking off about lack of tables when they replaced our lovely 377's to London Bridge, probably a bit before GN passengers even realised they were coming as we got them first (not that we are competitive :D ). Plus quite a lot of noise about lack of Wi-Fi too which is why later ones have both tables and Wi-Fi.

GTR did promise to retrofit but DfT refused funding.
 

Aictos

On Moderation
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,397
Rear carriage of the 700s is always declassified.
Unless the train carries standard class only in which case both 1st Class compartments are open to all ticket holders, such services are:

Bedford to Rainham
Luton to Rainham
Luton to Orpington
St Albans to Sutton via Wimbledon
St Albans to Wimbledon via Sutton
London Blackfriars to Sevenoaks
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
9,032
In many respects the 700s were an upgrade on the 319s on the ‘legacy’ Thameslink network, especially for the extra capacity, but for a time 377s also operated here and the 700s are definitely a downgrade.

The GN side of things had effectively a self contained reliable service with 365s and 317 and in later years 321s supplementing at certain times. GN never suffered from the over crowding and for regular passengers they were considered a significant downgrade.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
30,295
Location
Yorks
I think that with a bit of tweaking, the 700's could be improved quite a bit, passenger experience wise.
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
9,032
I think that with a bit of tweaking, the 700's could be improved quite a bit, passenger experience wise.
Fundamentally they aren’t bad trains. What is needed is for the seats in standard class to be an inch or two away from the side wall of the train, and ideally an inch or two more leg room. This would mean a slightly narrower aisle and losing a few seats but that is hardly likely to be an issue for the foreseeable future.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
30,295
Location
Yorks
Fundamentally they aren’t bad trains. What is needed is for the seats in standard class to be an inch or two away from the side wall of the train, and ideally an inch or two more leg room. This would mean a slightly narrower aisle and losing a few seats but that is hardly likely to be an issue for the foreseeable future.

And tables !
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
9,032
And tables !
Yes, of course. I’ve regularly said that a 365 style seating layout would be a winning combination for the 700s.

By means have more standing areas near the doors etc but the 365s have a perfect layout for outer suburban services.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
30,295
Location
Yorks
Yes, of course. I’ve regularly said that a 365 style seating layout would be a winning combination for the 700s.

By means have more standing areas near the doors etc but the 365s have a perfect layout for outer suburban services.

They seemed to have ok loo provision for a modern train as well.
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
9,032
They seemed to have ok loo provision for a modern train as well.
Yes, and the PIS is pretty decent as well.

When it works Thameslink is a brilliant service. To be fair GTR have come a long way since the 2018 meltdown and really hope the DfT don’t break it up. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Just a shame about the seats in standard really.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
30,295
Location
Yorks
Yes, and the PIS is pretty decent as well.

When it works Thameslink is a brilliant service. To be fair GTR have come a long way since the 2018 meltdown and really hope the DfT don’t break it up. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Just a shame about the seats in standard really.

Yes, at least they use decent moquette.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,150
Location
Central Belt
Yes, and the PIS is pretty decent as well.

When it works Thameslink is a brilliant service. To be fair GTR have come a long way since the 2018 meltdown and really hope the DfT don’t break it up. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Just a shame about the seats in standard really.
They have never finished the timetable. Don’t often get a direct train from WGC - Blackfriars. Although some would argue that is a good thing.
 

Nicholas Lewis

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
2,041
Location
Surrey
I can assure you Southern passengers did a very loud kicking off about lack of tables when they replaced our lovely 377's to London Bridge, probably a bit before GN passengers even realised they were coming as we got them first (not that we are competitive :D ). Plus quite a lot of noise about lack of Wi-Fi too which is why later ones have both tables and Wi-Fi.

GTR did promise to retrofit but DfT refused funding.
I complained to my MP about lack of wifi and tables on some units and he got someone at DofT to write back to me and explain that it would be done but it was a challenge to take the units out of traffic to do it currently. This was pre covid yet for last 15mths they've not been using all the units on a daily basis with reduced traffic but nothing has been done about it and suspect it won't be uppermost in there priority now when they are looking to keep costs down.

No doubt 321's are going to scrap with wifi equipment still fitted.
 

Andrew S

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2018
Messages
140
still furious about the interior spec on the 700, but i think ive bored myself to tears with my wingeing about it. maybe have to wait for a mid life refurbishment to see any improvements. They shouldve got the jist after the lukewarm response to the first unit when it was displayed at that german railexpo event.

They're just okay for suburban routes. Slightly less than luxurious for long journeys. The LED lighting is harsh. Perhaps they'd be better being one or the other.

I live on the North Kent line, I get Thameslink if it's quiet enough to find a seat in first class, otherwise I'll wait for a Networker.
 

Minstral25

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2009
Messages
1,376
Location
Surrey
In many respects the 700s were an upgrade on the 319s on the ‘legacy’ Thameslink network, especially for the extra capacity, but for a time 377s also operated here and the 700s are definitely a downgrade.

The GN side of things had effectively a self contained reliable service with 365s and 317 and in later years 321s supplementing at certain times. GN never suffered from the over crowding and for regular passengers they were considered a significant downgrade.

Exactly - on our section of Southern we had a service purely self-contained with Class 377's after slam door stock departed (except for 3 peak only Thameslinks per day), so receiving the 700's to replace them on the old Southern routes was a significant downgrade.

South of London the 4tph Bedford to Brighton's went from 319 to 387 to 700, but the other routes the 700's went on were previously Southern routes utilising 377's.

I complained to my MP about lack of wifi and tables on some units and he got someone at DofT to write back to me and explain that it would be done but it was a challenge to take the units out of traffic to do it currently. This was pre covid yet for last 15mths they've not been using all the units on a daily basis with reduced traffic but nothing has been done about it and suspect it won't be uppermost in there priority now when they are looking to keep costs down.

No doubt 321's are going to scrap with wifi equipment still fitted.

I asked GTR management a few months back and the answer was the DfT still won't pay for them to be upgraded. Nothing was mentioned about a challenge to take them out of service. It's the usual whatever answer suits to get you off their backs.

The 321 Wi-fi probably wouldn't work as if I remember correctly the early 700's don't have the wiring looms installed to connect a Wi-Fi or an aerial which is why they couldn't just plug them in.
 
Last edited:

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
10,838
if I remember correctly the early 700's don't have the wiring looms installed to connect a Wi-Fi or an aerial which is why they couldn't just plug them in.
You remember correctly. Siemens asked DfT on several occasions if they wanted wiring installing for WiFi as it would be much cheaper to install during build than as a retro-fit and DfT repeatedly said no. Then part way through the build DFT asked Siemens to fit WiFi...
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,278
Personally, I think the 700 is a pretty good train, especially when you consider the challenges that have gone into designing it. It's used for everything from effectively being another tube line through central London, to stopping inner suburban services, to long-distance semi-fast services. Designing something that works for all of those things is no easy task! Generally the seats aren't too bad, and provide a decent amount of space. There's good luggage space, a decent amount of standing room, good information systems and plenty of toilets. While it may not be perfect for everything, I don't think there's been any major cock-ups in the design. They're smooth and quiet too, and generally a lot nicer to travel in than 319s. At full speed with the windows open, those things didn't half make a racket.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top