New trains for East Midlands Franchise

[Nym]

Aha! I have read that Abellio claims to replace the intercity fleet with "more reliable and comfortable trains"

Guess that rules out the 180's!

Also rules out 80xs given their horrific comfort levels.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Yes, gangwayed stock would always be preferable to me. Shame the 360s weren't built with gangways; they are pig-ugly and less practical.

Health and Safety Executive put paid to that - the original design was to have a gangway.

 

[Class 170101]

The plan is Bedford cauldwell depot. Some roads reactivated for maintenance. It is a modern depot after all. Some 700s stabled elsewhere.

Are Abellio allowed to tell another operator to move their trains elsewhere?

 

[43096]

Health and Safety Executive put paid to that - the original design was to have a gangway.

I thought it was specifically to do with sighting of platform mounted DOO equipment (screens/mirrors).

 

[anamyd]

Also rules out 80xs given their horrific comfort levels.

was thinking the same thing...

 

[ainsworth74]

Are Abellio allowed to tell another operator to move their trains elsewhere?

Probably not but the DfT almost certainly can...

 

[Class 170101]

Probably not but the DfT almost certainly can...

The only question is where? Is there room in Cricklewood overnight (and weekends too) for the displaced trains? If not?

 

[hwl]

Probably not but the DfT almost certainly can...

It has been the long term plan (5+ years). Bedford lost its heavier maintenance work when the last of the 319s and 377s left and the big work on the 700s is done elsewhere, hence the Corby EMUs would help maintain the Bedford's skill base except Corby electrification got delayed...

 

[edwin_m]

There was a stack of 707s in Cricklewood last time I passed. With these coming into service on the GN will it free up space for 700s to stable there, in turn making space at Caudwell?

 

[hooverboy]

Health and Safety Executive put paid to that - the original design was to have a gangway.

the health+safety "sledgehammer to crack a nut" approach as usual.

they could quite easily specify 90/100mph max rating for gangwayed stuff,that way it keeps everybody happy...but nooooo.
I can quite understand the desire for some extra padding above that, but the regulation is overkill.

 

[LowLevel]

the health+safety "sledgehammer to crack a nut" approach as usual.

they could quite easily specify 90/100mph max rating for gangwayed stuff,that way it keeps everybody happy...but nooooo.
I can quite understand the desire for some extra padding above that, but the regulation is overkill.

It was nothing to do with that and everything to do with sighting issues for the DOO platform based equipment in use on the Great Eastern not being properly visible I believe.

 

[whhistle]

Not sure if this has been picked up elsewhere, but RailStaff magazine (April 2019) says:

The entire intercity fleet of HSTs and Meridians, as well as the entire regional fleet of Sprinters, is set to be replaced, with the first of the new trains entering service by April 2022

So an entire fleet replacement?

I would have thought this would be a leading headline promise.
Unless Abellio are waiting until after the stand still period to announce what they'll be doing properly?

 

[F Great Eastern]

It was nothing to do with that and everything to do with sighting issues for the DOO platform based equipment in use on the Great Eastern not being properly visible I believe.

And that was a requirement due to the insistance of the Health and Safety executive and their fears over such.

 

[YorkshireBear]

God forbid we have clear sighting for DOO... ..

 

[ainsworth74]

A further reminder that this isn't a DOO thread so lets not go down that rabbit hole.

 

[TBSchenker]

Not sure if this has been picked up elsewhere, but RailStaff magazine (April 2019) says:



So an entire fleet replacement?

Sprinter fleet says to me the 153/156s . Are/were 158s ever part of the Sprinter family? I'd say 158s will stay.

 

[sprinterguy]

Are/were 158s ever part of the Sprinter family?

Yes, they were referred to as "Express Sprinter" units from new.

 

[Entertexthere]

Not sure if this has been picked up elsewhere, but RailStaff magazine (April 2019) says:



So an entire fleet replacement?

I guess the sprinters could be transferred up to Northern, maybe the 153s could end up going to scotrail for their "bike program"

 

[43096]

I guess the sprinters could be transferred up to Northern, maybe the 153s could end up going to scotrail for their "bike program"

ScotRail already have the units identified for their 153 programme.

 

[whhistle]

Sorry to bump this again but Railway Herald (639) has also said it's a full fleet replacement:



Although words can easily be twisted I suppose.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Sorry to bump this again but Railway Herald (639) has also said it's a full fleet replacement:

View attachment 62088

Although words can easily be twisted I suppose.

Full Fleet Replacement does not necessarily mean a complete fleet of new trains. Just new to the East Midlands Franchise. Those pacers in Iran would fit the definition!
I did a 'full fleet replacement' of my LP collection with CD's - very few of them were new, just new to me!

Obvioulsy all trains will be replaced if you take a long enough view!

I found the link to Hansard for the full questions and answers.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-04-11/debates/97686E18-4BE6-4D7F-914B-96F43098DC84/EastMidlandsRailFranchise?highlight=rail minister#contribution-9CAC384F-B7CB-4F53-8F30-3700C7FFDB8A

On Wednesday 10 April, it was announced that Abellio is the successful bidder to operate the east midlands rail franchise and will be responsible for delivering new trains, smart ticketing and more frequent services for passengers. Passengers in the east midlands are to get new trains, more peak-time services, reduced journey times and over £17 million of station improvements as Abellio takes over the franchise from August 2019.

Abellio will invest £600 million in trains and stations between August 2019 and 2027, while the Government continue with their £1.5 billion upgrade to the midland main line—the biggest upgrade to the line since it was completed in 1870. This is part of the Government’s £48 billion investment to modernise our railways over the next five years.

As we informed the House in yesterday’s written statement, Abellio was awarded the contract “following rigorous competition.” It was a fair, open competition and Abellio provided the best bid, in which it demonstrated that it will not only meet but exceed the Department’s specifications.

Stagecoach chose to put in a non-compliant bid, which resulted in its disqualification, in line with the terms of the published invitation to tender. That said, Stagecoach has played an important role in our railways, and we hope it will continue to do so after the conclusion of the rail review. However, it is entirely for Stagecoach and its bidding partners to explain why it decided to ignore established rules by rejecting the commercial terms on offer.

The quality of the rolling stock will be upgraded. The rolling stock in this area is indeed quite old. I am fully aware that I do not travel on the line as frequently as my hon. Friend, although I am quite a regular passenger. As we replace trains across our network, we are seeing a much improved service. In this instance, there will be more seats and free wi-fi across the franchise, which should benefit her and those she serves. On stopping at Belper, I will need to do some further investigation and reply separately on that point.

The official announcement only refers to the inter-city fleet:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...s-for-passengers-on-new-east-midlands-railway

Abellio will oversee the introduction of brand-new trains, entirely replacing the existing intercity fleet with more reliable and comfortable trains. Passengers will benefit from an 80% increase in the number of morning peak seats into Nottingham, Lincoln and St Pancras.

 

[johnnychips]

Yes, it depends whether 'new' means 'freshly-built' or 'different' and both meanings are correct in the English language!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Yes, it depends whether 'new' means 'freshly-built' or 'different' and both meanings are correct in the English language!

Indeed.

Having re-read the announcement by the Secretary of State on 10 April, the response to questions by the Rail Minister and the Railway Herald Article, I am inclined to believe the S of S statement as the most accurate - as that would have been prepared in good time by civil servants.

A quick story by a reporter following a skim-read, or an off-the-cuff response to an urgent question in the Commons, I place less reliance in.

The detailed franchise map, prepared by the DfT clearly refers to refurbished trains (Crewe - Nottingham for example). Again I am more inclined to believe that which is prepared in advance.

Now then, 230 conversions for Crewe - Nottingham anyone? Bets now being taken.

 

[Burgerstahl]

I don’t think 230’s would be fast enough, especially between Stoke and Kidsgrove.

 

[LowLevel]

Don't expect new trains for the local fleet. All the industry gossip says 170 which look a world apart from the 15x particularly internally and given a good tidy up will suit perfectly well.

 

[Jozhua]

170 would be ideal for Crewe-Notts, especially considering the 110mph section between Derby and Notts

 

[Whistler40145]

I wonder if IEP units would be considered?

 

[DanDaDriver]

170 would be ideal for Crewe-Notts, especially considering the 110mph section between Derby and Notts

Yeah...... those couple of miles make a -huge- difference. Particularly when he’s probably checking you down for Sawley Barriers and you’re braking for the 15mph at Trent.

 

[cactustwirly]

170 would be ideal for Crewe-Notts, especially considering the 110mph section between Derby and Notts

Not much use tbh, Trent Jct into Nottingham is about 80 or 90mph

 

[DanDaDriver]

Not much use tbh, Trent Jct into Nottingham is about 80 or 90mph

80 from Meadow Lane, then 50/25/15 from Lenton Jn. But you’ve quite often got yellows up ahead with the various barriers, local stoppers and if there’s anything out of path at Trent