New trains for East Midlands Franchise

[greatvoyager]

That is the intention. To have only one type of stock for different routes and uses.

EMR Intercity - 804
EMR Electrics - 360
EMR Regional - 170

Thank you.

 

[hooverboy]

So that the regional side will eventually operate a 100% 170 fleet.

not sure about that, they're keeping a lot of 156's.

going from 153 to 156 is still a step up comfort-wise though, especially for derby-crewe etc.

EMR haven't ordered enough 170s to make the entire fleet uniform at this stage.

 

[D365]

a lot of them going to northern i believe(which is a shame, EMR 158's are in good nick)

Oh has that been confirmed? Wonder if that is related to the franchise requirement for additional DMUs.

 

[hooverboy]

Oh has that been confirmed? Wonder if that is related to the franchise requirement for additional DMUs.

the 158's are gone,no matter what.pity.

in the franchis they stated for regional fleet the 170's were coming, but 156 would replace 153 single runners, with a couple of 153's kept as capacity busters coupled to either a 156 or 170

 

[physics34]

not sure about that, they're keeping a lot of 156's.

going from 153 to 156 is still a step up comfort-wise though, especially for derby-crewe etc.

EMR haven't ordered enough 170s to make the entire fleet uniform at this stage.

Southerns 171s to follow eventually???

 

[class26]

Thanks for that. Looks like I'll be getting single carriages more on EMR Crewe route instead of 2 or 3.

EMR have a dispensation from Daft to operate the 153`s until the end of 2020.

 

[ag51ruk]

EMR have a dispensation from Daft to operate the 153`s until the end of 2020.

They do, but EMR are trying to always run them as 2 coaches (2 x 153) where possible, and that is mostly what has been running to Crewe this week

 

[D365]

the 158's are gone,no matter what.pity.

in the franchis they stated for regional fleet the 170's were coming, but 156 would replace 153 single runners, with a couple of 153's kept as capacity busters coupled to either a 156 or 170

Apologies, I meant that additional DMUs for Northern (aside from the ones already coming in) was part of their agreement.

 

[Mugby]

Is it known what's to be done with the 180s before they enter service with EMR?

Any livery alteration or is dynamic lines to be retained? Anything else needing to be altered or modified?

 

[woodhouse122]

Is it known what's to be done with the 180s before they enter service with EMR?

Any livery alteration or is dynamic lines to be retained? Anything else needing to be altered or modified?

probobly just stick EMR lettering on them

 

[londonmidland]

Any livery alteration or is dynamic lines to be retained? Anything else needing to be altered or modified?

I presume at most it'll be EMR Intercity vinyls, with perhaps the dynamic lines removed and the pink doors changed to purple.

 

[Haydn1971]

a lot of them going to northern i believe(which is a shame, EMR 158's are in good nick)

Really ? My experience of using them daily on the Sheffield - Manchester commute was typically marred by units that didn’t have operational heating or cooling, smelly toilets and generally looked tatty other than the seats !

 

[LowLevel]

Really ? My experience of using them daily on the Sheffield - Manchester commute was typically marred by units that didn’t have operational heating or cooling, smelly toilets and generally looked tatty other than the seats !

You're not wrong - after nearly 30 years on proper class 1 duties they're totally knackered. Some are better than others (the smelly toilet issue has also been cured by the PRM work by and large) but they've had a hard life and it shows. Trying to bully the ancient control system for the air con/heating into working correctly is a chore. They have electrical gremlins. They're like working in a shed as far as the driver is concerned compared to more modern trains. The PA systems need a full rebuild.

Some excellent work goes into keeping them going but I can see why the desire is there to dispense with them - they're from a period of transition in design and they have a lot of hang ups.

That's without the fact that under the sole bar they're totally obsolete with 1960s derived engines and a very inefficient drive train by modern standards.

 

[Kneedown]

not sure about that, they're keeping a lot of 156's.

going from 153 to 156 is still a step up comfort-wise though, especially for derby-crewe etc.

EMR haven't ordered enough 170s to make the entire fleet uniform at this stage.

The extra 156's are only a stop gap to enable full 2 car, PRM compliant running until such time as sufficient 170's are in service.

 

[londonmidland]

Speaking of 158s I have a question. I regularly travel on both Northern and EMR 158s, who both have Perkins and Cummins varients.

However the former always seems to sound louder as well being able to feel the engine underneath you a lot more.

Why is this? What does EMR do differently to quite drastically keep the internal noise and vibrations down on the 158s compared to Northern?

Bearing in mind I make my comparisons approximately in the same area of the coach - in the middle.

 

[LowLevel]

Speaking of 158s I have a question. I regularly travel on both Northern and EMR 158s, who both have Perkins and Cummins varients.

However the former always seems to sound louder as well being able to feel the engine underneath you a lot more.

Why is this? What does EMR do differently to quite drastically keep the internal noise and vibrations down on the 158s compared to Northern?

Bearing in mind I make my comparisons approximately in the same area of the coach - in the middle.

They were always like that from when they were introduced. Little things like emergency windows fitting up correctly make a big difference to the sound proofing. I'm not sure if they skimped on later builds too. The ex TPE units that EMR have are generally quieter in the saloon than the others for example.

I also think the EMR units have thicker carpets - they're noticeably quite plush when they come out of works.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Surprisingly I've seen more Derby to Crewe services this week as 2 x 153s. Not before time though.

 

[ohgoditsjames]

EMR currently have 26 158’s (I think?), if they do all go to Northern then that’s a nice boost for them. Has it been confirmed that they’re definitely off to Northern?

 

[222001]

EMR currently have 26 158’s (I think?), if they do all go to Northern then that’s a nice boost for them. Has it been confirmed that they’re definitely off to Northern?

I can see them remaining with EMR, when they find out they can't get the Southern 171s, as Southern have nothing to replace them with...

 

[OTRail]

I can see them remaining with EMR, when they find out they can't get the Southern 171s, as Southern have nothing to replace them with...

I heard that they’re being replaced by hybrid-battery Electrostars unless I’m mistaken...

 

[LowLevel]

I can see them remaining with EMR, when they find out they can't get the Southern 171s, as Southern have nothing to replace them with...

You post as if it's one of those things that will be sprung upon them one day... 'ah yes, sorry Mr EMR, those trains you have a contract for, they're staying where they are. But keep some pre loved 158s instead, you might like them better than you think...'

It's a multi million pound rail contract not Swiss Toni's used car dealership, I'm sure all parties are involved in discussions regarding a way forward.

 

[talltim]

You post as if it's one of those things that will be sprung upon them one day... 'ah yes, sorry Mr EMR, those trains you have a contract for, they're staying where they are. But keep some pre loved 158s instead, you might like them better than you think...'

It's a multi million pound rail contract not Swiss Toni's used car dealership, I'm sure all parties are involved in discussions regarding a way forward.

And yet this seems to happen. Late running introduction of new units on Greater Anglia have led to late cascading of units to EMR

 

[edwin_m]

You post as if it's one of those things that will be sprung upon them one day... 'ah yes, sorry Mr EMR, those trains you have a contract for, they're staying where they are. But keep some pre loved 158s instead, you might like them better than you think...'

It's a multi million pound rail contract not Swiss Toni's used car dealership, I'm sure all parties are involved in discussions regarding a way forward.

I think it's the same situation as when TransPennine lost their 170s because another franchise signed them up from the ROSCO. TPE weren't able to extend their existing hire contract because it would have run beyond the end of their franchise at the time. North vs south conspiracy theorists will be interested to see whether the same is allowed to happen when it's the north (or at least the midlands) that will benefit...

And yet this seems to happen. Late running introduction of new units on Greater Anglia have led to late cascading of units to EMR

Here both franchises are run by Abellio so there is likely to be more flexibility to vary dates. It's probably better for EMR to continue some of their short trains for a few more weeks, at a time of year when passenger numbers are a bit lower anyway, than for numerous Anglia services to be cancelled entirely.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

No, EMR have sad there will be no more single carriage trains operated alone

Strange that, I was on one on Tuesday this week (7th January) and have seen others singly this year. Admittedly the train in the other direction was doubled up 153's.

 

[class26]

Strange that, I was on one on Tuesday this week (7th January) and have seen others singly this year. Admittedly the train in the other direction was doubled up 153's.

I think its work in progress. EMR are waiting for delivery of 156`s from Anglia and 170`s from Scotland to be followed by trains from other companies.

Until l these arrive they can`t do much.

 

[222001]

You post as if it's one of those things that will be sprung upon them one day... 'ah yes, sorry Mr EMR, those trains you have a contract for, they're staying where they are. But keep some pre loved 158s instead, you might like them better than you think...'

It's a multi million pound rail contract not Swiss Toni's used car dealership, I'm sure all parties are involved in discussions regarding a way forward.

You have a lot of faith! I thought the contract for the 171s was subject to Southern having replacement trains, not a guaranteed delivery of 171s by a certain date?

 

[RealTrains07]

Southerns 171s to follow eventually???

Yes eventually, not this year which is why more 156s are needed as a stop gap untill they arrive

 

[RealTrains07]

I heard that they’re being replaced by hybrid-battery Electrostars unless I’m mistaken...

Thats what has been said even though GTR have not said a word thus far as far as I gather?

 

[Trainfan2019]

Strange that, I was on one on Tuesday this week (7th January) and have seen others singly this year. Admittedly the train in the other direction was doubled up 153's.

I'm currently on a double 153 but have seen odd singles this week. The 4 x 153s are still parked up at Crewe.

 

[RealTrains07]

I'm currently on a double 153 but have seen odd singles this week. The 4 x 153s are still parked up at Crewe.

What are the diagrams on the derby - crewe like now? Any different since the PRM deadline past?