New trains for East Midlands Franchise

[hooverboy]

Given they are marketing the Corby EMU service as the airport express, they need to be very careful about being able to deal with lots of passengers with luggage at Luton Airport without incurring excessive dwell times which suggest they will keep the trains long through the day.
Unless they rip out lots of seats luggage space will be an issue hence keeping the trains long also helps as you need less luggage space per unit and fewer seats removed per unit.

are they marketing it as airport express?

have abellio changed the ticket policy then at luton airport?
if they haven't then there will NOT be tonnes of people with luggage. easyjet and groupsave tickets aren't valid on EMT,so everybody gets the thameslink trains!

 

[hwl]

are they marketing it as airport express?

have abellio changed the ticket policy then at luton airport?
if they haven't then there will NOT be tonnes of people with luggage. easyjet and groupsave tickets aren't valid on EMT,so everybody gets the thameslink trains!

No point until the trains are running...

 

[InTheEastMids]

A recent staff podcast update has been published by the fleet director in which he acknowledges that questions have been raised but confirms that provided everything happens when it should the timetable will be workable as promised. We shall have to see how the year pans out!

Lord, grant me the confidence of the EMR fleet director, that given recent industry track record, everything will happen when it should

The real issue is not whether there are enough 222s to run every train, but whether there will be enough capacity. In post #2504 I took a stab at showing how the 222 formations could look post Dec-20, and certainly it will rely on basically all the commuter demand from Kettering etc being shifted to the electrics. Even so, assuming you want every train out of London from say 4pm untill just after 7 to be 7 cars or more, that implies there won't be many longer sets to handle peak demand out of Sheffield or Nottingham. No idea if that's a big problem though

 

[edwin_m]

Lord, grant me the confidence of the EMR fleet director, that given recent industry track record, everything will happen when it should

Unfortunately it's intrinsic to the franchising system that they have to assume this in respect of both rolling stock cascades and infrastructure upgrades. Introducing slack into the fleet for contingency purposes costs money and any franchise bidder doing so is likely to lose to someone who doesn't. In the highly likely event that the assumptions on stock and infrastructure made at bid time are invalid, any franchise can turn round to the government with a reason/excuse for failing to deliver its commitments.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Lord, grant me the confidence of the EMR fleet director, that given recent industry track record, everything will happen when it should

The real issue is not whether there are enough 222s to run every train, but whether there will be enough capacity. In post #2504 I took a stab at showing how the 222 formations could look post Dec-20, and certainly it will rely on basically all the commuter demand from Kettering etc being shifted to the electrics. Even so, assuming you want every train out of London from say 4pm untill just after 7 to be 7 cars or more, that implies there won't be many longer sets to handle peak demand out of Sheffield or Nottingham. No idea if that's a big problem though

Indeed, sounds like they have learnt nothing from GA!

 

[LowLevel]

So if there's one Train Manager / Guard and one driver per train, what happens to the unit that doesn't have any staff member in it?

XC get away with it as their double units have the driver in one half, Train Manager in the other.

Would be better to scrap off some (360) end cars and make one large through-train perhaps.

It might not have some one in it. That's how 12 car 360s operate on GA at the moment. The guard travels in whichever unit they need to for dispatch.

 

[Aictos]

It might not have some one in it. That's how 12 car 360s operate on GA at the moment. The guard travels in whichever unit they need to for dispatch.

Is that how SWR and LNR also work?

 

[sd0733]

Is that how SWR and LNR also work?

All 350s and 450s are end gangwayed so guards can move between units.

 

[MML]

I really do hope EMR fit high quality, comfortable seating on the 360s.
The Thameslink 700's are superb units with light and spacious interiors, large bins, rapid acceleration and quality air conditioning.
It was the lack of seat back tables, uncomfortable seating and floor level ducting which ruined an otherwise perfect train.

EMR have the opportunity to offer a quality inter-city product which is a cut above the rest. We already know standard class will be 2+2. I'm unsure whether First Class will offer 1+2 seating.
Will one car be first class and 3 cars be standard seating per 4-car unit. In which case, a 12-car unit will have first class seating in 3 separate locations throughout the train.
One hopes sufficient space will be provided for luggage given these services are also to be marketed as Airport Express trains. With seats properly aligned with windows, there should be luggage racks by the doors for bulky suitcases and space between the seats backs for smaller trolley bags.

Carpet interior will add to the luxury feel, but it needs to be hard wearing with durable matting in the vestibules.
Question remains how can a trolley service be provided when there are no through corridors between units. Do EMR simply abandon catering provision altogether, provide it only in the centre unit or come up with a process to transfer the catering trolley between units using ramps to the platform at station stops.

So many questions, the successful refurbishment will be pivotal in determining the success of these electric units in winning customers from both existing Thameslink services and those currently using the rather threadbare Meridian units.

 

[Fincra5]

I really do hope EMR fit high quality, comfortable seating on the 360s.
The Thameslink 700's are superb units with light and spacious interiors, large bins, rapid acceleration and quality air conditioning.
It was the lack of seat back tables, uncomfortable seating and floor level ducting which ruined an otherwise perfect train.

EMR have the opportunity to offer a quality inter-city product which is a cut above the rest. We already know standard class will be 2+2. I'm unsure whether First Class will offer 1+2 seating.
Will one car be first class and 3 cars be standard seating per 4-car unit. In which case, a 12-car unit will have first class seating in 3 separate locations throughout the train.
One hopes sufficient space will be provided for luggage given these services are also to be marketed as Airport Express trains. With seats properly aligned with windows, there should be luggage racks by the doors for bulky suitcases and space between the seats backs for smaller trolley bags.

Carpet interior will add to the luxury feel, but it needs to be hard wearing with durable matting in the vestibules.
Question remains how can a trolley service be provided when there are no through corridors between units. Do EMR simply abandon catering provision altogether, provide it only in the centre unit or come up with a process to transfer the catering trolley between units using ramps to the platform at station stops.

So many questions, the successful refurbishment will be pivotal in determining the success of these electric units in winning customers from both existing Thameslink services and those currently using the rather threadbare Meridian units.

700s Superb Units? What have you been sniffing . I’d imagine with the Corby Electric services being basically commuter trains, the onboard catering will be ditched.

GA could pay through the nose for a cab rebuild to include Gangways. But that’s unlikely.

 

[Fincra5]

It might not have some one in it. That's how 12 car 360s operate on GA at the moment. The guard travels in whichever unit they need to for dispatch.

On an Uckfield 171 formation the same applies. The guard has to be wherever they need to be for dispatch.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Ex Greater Anglia 156907 on the 15:07 from Crewe to Derby today. On board announcements are very loud and clear. Quite nice inside too.

 

[whhistle]

Been suggested internally that the new Hitachi units are to be champagne colour themed inside with brown stitched seating.
Very modern, unlike anything currently running.

Regional trains will be Platinum themed inside.

Electrics was going to be minty green, but has since been expressed in icy blue or white colours.

Livery will remain purple. These colours are internal themes only.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

They can’t unfortunately, as the BR livery isn’t PRM compliant due to the doors being the same colour as the rest of the carriage.

Must admit, I hadn't thought of that.

However, although new Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railway carriages have different coloured doors, they operate some which pre-date current rules but are newer than HSTs with doors being
liveried in the same way as the rest of the bodyside; therefore, is there some way round this requirement for a "heritage" train used in daily service?

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I've seen one 156 - presumably an ex GA one - with it's end painted in whatever EMR call that beetroot colour which has been applied to a 222 and the rest in something light (sorry, can't be more specific because of the angle at which I saw it parked-up on Etches Park depot).

Is it the intention to paint all of the ex GA sets in the same style?

 

[samuelmorris]

Surely not if they're only temporary units.

 

[londonmidland]

EMR advertising the ex-LNER HSTs, and the differences to our current sets, at London St Pancras.

 

[NewSt]

Must admit, I hadn't thought of that.

However, although new Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railway carriages have different coloured doors, they operate some which pre-date current rules but are newer than HSTs with doors being
liveried in the same way as the rest of the bodyside; therefore, is there some way round this requirement for a "heritage" train used in daily service?

Heritage railways and railtour operators can operate with non-PRM compliant liveries, as far as I know.

 

[raetiamann]

EMR advertising the ex-LNER HSTs, and the differences to our current sets, at London St Pancras.

View attachment 73324

Quite an admission that the LNER sets are nicer than EMR ones?

 

[Jozhua]

Quite an admission that the LNER sets are nicer than EMR ones?

Well an admission the sets EMR is bringing in are better than the ones EMT were running...

I'll be interested to see the difference if I end up riding on one through the midlands.

 

[hooverboy]

I've seen one 156 - presumably an ex GA one - with it's end painted in whatever EMR call that beetroot colour which has been applied to a 222 and the rest in something light (sorry, can't be more specific because of the angle at which I saw it parked-up on Etches Park depot).

Is it the intention to paint all of the ex GA sets in the same style?

I think the new EMR liveried 222's are destined to become "the flying aubergine"

 

[ainsworth74]

It does not appear that there is much left to discuss currently on this thread as more information is coming to light as we go along so separate threads for individual issues is now warranted. For instance the new trains to replace the 222s have a thread here.

Thanks,
ainsworth74