New trains for the DLR?

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Clip, 7 Apr 2015.

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  1. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    So I bumped into someone over the weekend when out and about and we got round to alking about the DLR and he said that the first monies has been agreed to investigate some new trains given that most of the fleet is 20 years old and are a bit tired.

    Interestingly though they talked about them being fixed formation adn possibly looking to base the design on the S Stock on the tube. Though that does raise questions abotu the tight curves and headswing of them if they are fixed but I reckon they sound just champion seeing as they are planning on changing the seating on the B2007s anyway.
     
  2. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Not most. Less than half the fleet is 20+ years old.

    70 Class B90/B92 sets built between 1991 and 1995

    24 Class B2K sets built in 2001
    24 Class B07 sets built 2007/08
    31 Class B09 sets built in 2009
     
    Last edited: 7 Apr 2015
  3. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    Apologies for not reading up on the fleets before I posted as I always thought they only had 55 of the B2007 fleet.
     
  4. hassaanhc

    hassaanhc Established Member

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    It is 55 of the "new design" (numbered 101-155), although many sites don't list the distinction between the original 2007 order for 3-car services and the extras ordered for the Stratford International opening and more 3-car consists. What he was saying was that 24 of the "old design" ones (numbered 92-99 / 01-16) only date back to 2000-2001.
     
  5. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Interesting, because a few months ago two members of DLR staff ( one volunteered it; the other confirmed it when asked but did caveat it as a rumour ) that they were looking at a complete fleet renewal which would involve instead of three two car units per train, the entire fleet would thereafter consist of six car units running singly.

    In terms of capacity that does make sense as it would eliminate the two coupled areas in each train at present and that would increase capacity somewhat; it would also drastically reduce the number of manual driving consoles required which would no doubt save a fair bit on maintenance costs.

    What wasn't clear was the timescale; "two to three years" was the best they could say, which would probably be for the tendering rather than for the first unit arriving.

    If this goes ahead on a like for like basis, that would mean a minimum of 50 of these new 6 car units wouldn't it? There being 149 of the present 2 car units = 298 cars; 300 cars being the nearest exact division.
     
    Last edited: 7 Apr 2015
  6. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Probably add another 5 and another minor extension. Its cheaper to build extensions when your ordering new rolling stock as half the cost of a line is usually the rolling stock to operate.
     
  7. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    So what would happen to the existing stock? Pacer replacement? ;)
     
  8. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Mersyrail. No problem with the tunnels, just move the 3rd rail and use the manual controls. :)
     
  9. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    That was the timescale that I got told about - which is why it would be based on the S stock but nothing about 6 car formations - that would entail lots of work on the stations as some cant even do 3 car properly and the underground ones would be right pricey.
     
  10. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    No, you read it wrong - all the Pacers being displaced by 165s moving up north will be used on the DLR. West India Quay Flyover will now basically be a rollercoaster.
     
  11. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    It would be logical to replace the fleet by units as long as three of the existing ones, as they don't seem to run in shorter formations these days and it also allows the attendant to walk through the train. However it seems a bit soon even for the B92s, unless there is some problem with this fleet which suggests premature replacement.

    I can't see it being economic to replace the newer units, unless there's somewhere else they can sell them on too. Essen took the original fleet of 11, but would the Ruhr accept London's cast-offs???
     
  12. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Maybe they aren't too proud to keep their costs down with serviceable 'previously cherished' equipment. :)
     
  13. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Essentially the spec would be ~86m long units, ~14m sections? All the major manufacturers offer some sort of Light Rail vehicle, for an order this size a semi-custom version would undoubtedly be produced. Given that "3 car" units already work throughout with Selective Door Opening I would not see why that should mean single full length units would have any further problems
     
  14. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    I can't see them replacing the B07/B09 fleets yet though? If this was heavy rail, then yes, as you could send them elsewhere ;)
     
  15. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    My gut feeling is that just the B90 and B92 sets will be replaced. Would they be scrapped or would there still be life left in them that another light rail or tram system could make use of?
     
  16. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    There are very few light rail systems that could use a high floor vehicle which probably has insufficient front end views to run on the street, even if they were converted to manual driving.
     
  17. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Factor in production and delivery time, you can make a slow delivery order that replaces the older stock but wont get round to the newer stock for at least five years.
     
  18. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    Well apparently it is for the older B92 vehicles but the order may be increased to get rid of that whole fleet in time but keeping the B2007s for a longer time.
     
  19. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    They're six carriage rakes at the moment aren't they? Three two car units on most trains with a few that are four cars... which come to think of it probably means they'd need 60 rather than 50 new units doesn't it?
     
  20. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    IIRC what you're calling a "car" or "carriage" actually only has one bogie at one end, and so is better described as half of one
     
  21. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    By that definition, a Eurostar would be a two carriage rake ( not counting the power cars )...
     
  22. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    No they run in either 2 or 3 car formation.
     
  23. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    That said, don't forget that the original DLR P86 units are now running on and off street in Essen, Germany. So I'd say anything's possible - Anyone planning a Metro System for the UK? (Tongue in Cheek!).
     
  24. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Usual terminology on light rail is to talk about "sections" separated by articulations. So the DLR unit has two sections and trains are normally formed of three units.
     
  25. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    the DLR has long referred to each two-section independent unit as a single "car"
     
  26. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    I personally find this confusing. When they first announced 3 car operation I thought they were planning on adding an extra 'section' into the middle of the existing units :oops::oops:
     
  27. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    You're not the only one...... Plus more than a few of their staff seem to prefer to use the traditional method of talking when counting the length of their trains.
     
  28. danielnez1

    danielnez1 Member

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    I wonder if they could be adapted for the Tyne and Wear Metro? Unfortunately even our refurbished Metrocars seem well past it!
     
  29. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That would require some quite significant rebuilding on the DLR units as they currently use bottom contact third-rail rather than pantographs to collect from overhead wires. It would be very expensive.
     
  30. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    Although one of the original DLR "cars" had a pantograph fitted and ran on overhead for a trial in Manchester(?). I doubt it would be worth doing for the metro
     
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