New Transdev Cityzap services registered (and now cancelled)

[96tommy]

Anyone know how this service has got on in the last week. Gone quiet on here. I think 2 buses have been out for maintenance, don't know how passenger numbers are doing.

 

[sarniasiren]

Caught the 10-05 on Thursday from Manchester. I thought that it may have been quite busy as it was the first one on the day to allow passes. However only 3 were on when we left. Picked up similar on the stop near the M62. Surely disappointing for the company.

 

[SCH117X]

Tweeted photo to Alex Hornby from Saturday I think shows a reasonably full B7RLE on a westbound working - photographer sat towards the rear nearside with seven other passengers in shot and a number of seats out of view. Suspect they may be carrying more westbound am eastbound pm than in the other direction as one of the big benefits of the service is the low priced journeys to Manchester from north and east of Leeds (Harrogate and York for example) using Daytripper tickets. Obviously the price applies to the rest of Transdev Blazefields network but suspect the elongated journey will sway against anyone other than enthusiasts using it for a number of journeys (such as Burnley to Leeds). A view supported by a posting on another forum from someone who was the sole passenger westbound in the afternoon but noted eastbound workings relatively busy.

 

[theblackwatch]

My parents did a journey on Saturday (11.30 ex Leeds) and there were about 25 on board. There were 3 City Zap buses out and a Pride of the North decker.

 

[96tommy]

Tweeted photo to Alex Hornby from Saturday I think shows a reasonably full B7RLE on a westbound working - photographer sat towards the rear nearside with seven other passengers in shot and a number of seats out of view. Suspect they may be carrying more westbound am eastbound pm than in the other direction as one of the big benefits of the service is the low priced journeys to Manchester from north and east of Leeds (Harrogate and York for example) using Daytripper tickets. Obviously the price applies to the rest of Transdev Blazefields network but suspect the elongated journey will sway against anyone other than enthusiasts using it for a number of journeys (such as Burnley to Leeds). A view supported by a posting on another forum from someone who was the sole passenger westbound in the afternoon but noted eastbound workings relatively busy.

I saw that post. 1 person on the 17:30 from Leeds to Manchester doesn't sound very good at all for a peak time journey. Strange as it is when the original CityZap is at its busiest.

 

[96tommy]

Cityzap are offering rail ticket holders free journeys on the CityZap between Leeds and Manchester this month from what I've heard.

I've noticed from various sources that passenger numbers are low on the new route so may help that rise in the short term. Surprised as they were quite busy the first few times I saw them on the M62

I plan on taking advantage of the day tripper ticket in the next few months and will most certainly ly use CityZap 2 as I have yet to have a chance yet. Looking forward to it

 

[SCH117X]

Think they have got this a bit wrong - no one is going to pay a rail ticket and use the bus are they (except on rail strike days)? More sensibly IMO they should be offering holders of a rail season ticket that expired no earlier than the previous week to the first day of travel on the bus a free pass for x days in exchange for the expired ticket to tempt them if possible to stay with them.

 

[pdsalford]

I assume they're hoping that rail users will realise it's an attractive alternative to the train and not renew season tickets.

 

[johntea]

Apart from the fact that it isn't due to the rather limited timetable! Also I would wager a lot of Manchester season ticket holders commute in to Leeds from the slightly more outer stations in West Yorkshire, so they're not likely to want a transfer to and from the bus station each day!

 

[SCH117X]

One rail user did tweet this week they were impressed with the service but then its stops near where they live. And as it was rail worker with a free pass I doubt once they realise they will have to pay they will continue with it.

 

[theblackwatch]

With effect from January 21, Daytripper tickets will no longer be valid on CityZap (or Coastliner).
From http://www.lancashirebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2217

Daytripper will no longer be valid on Cityzap or Coastliner buses. If you're travelling on Cityzap or Coastliner, upgrade to Daytripper Plus, which you can use on any Transdev bus in the north.

'Riding Redefined'? Oh no, that slogan was for the 36.

 

[96tommy]

Disgraceful. Don't know why Coastliner can no longer be used on the standard daytripper as far as York/Malton from Leeds. Without sounding silly, does seem to be slight "favouritism" towards the Harrogate branches of Transdev Blazefield (mainly the 36), you can go from Leeds out to Ripon on the ticket, why not York at least? Transdev should be trying to increase passenger numbers on cityzap at the moment since they are low, not further decreasing then.


Does anybody know what the return fares will be now between Tadcaster and York/Leeds?

 

[SCH117X]

They are introducing a new Cityzap Duo ticket - York to Leeds return for two people £18 (the same price as currently for two people)

 

[johntea]

http://harrogatebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2215

You could just buy a 5 day or 10 day Gold Flex package for £42/£80 and essentially have 5/10 Dayrider Plus tickets saved up then for £8.40 / £8.00 each! Unless I’m missing something obvious...

 

[Stan Drews]

http://harrogatebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2215

You could just buy a 5 day or 10 day Gold Flex package for £42/£80 and essentially have 5/10 Dayrider Plus tickets saved up then for £8.40 / £8.00 each! Unless I’m missing something obvious...

Think you're right. Get the Gold Flex ticket and you can do what you can now on a Daytripper plus for up to half the cost, or save up to £1.50 on the current cost of a Daytripper. I can imagine that will prove popular once people find out about it.

 

[96tommy]

Does anybody know why daytrippers are no longer valid on Coastliner?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Does anybody know why daytrippers are no longer valid on Coastliner?

To avoid potential overloading if you have a different policy/anomaly with Cityzap???

 

[Deerfold]

Disgraceful. Don't know why Coastliner can no longer be used on the standard daytripper as far as York/Malton from Leeds. Without sounding silly, does seem to be slight "favouritism" towards the Harrogate branches of Transdev Blazefield (mainly the 36), you can go from Leeds out to Ripon on the ticket, why not York at least? Transdev should be trying to increase passenger numbers on cityzap at the moment since they are low, not further decreasing then.


Does anybody know what the return fares will be now between Tadcaster and York/Leeds?

You can get to York.
You just have to do it on the 22.

 

[96tommy]

You can get to York.
You just have to do it on the 22.

The 22 doesn't go through Tad unfortunately

 

[96tommy]

Looking on social media looks like they are getting plenty of complaints. I just can't work out why on a route with very low passenger numbers (Cityzap) they are making a move that will make this even more lower.

 

[Stan Drews]

I expect the number of passengers on Cityzap using a daytripper ticket are relatively small as most people will simply be making a single or return trip between Leeds and York (or Manchester). Bus enthusiasts on a day out won't be their primary consideration, and the last time I travelled on Cityzap from Leeds to York (1130 on a Saturday) the bus was full.

 

[SCH117X]

And most blogs on using the Leeds - York Cityzap have the blogger then heading east on Coastliner so they would have been using a Daytripper Plus or Gold ticket anyway. As has been pointed out the new Gold Flex will be the equivalent of 5 or 10 Daytripper tickets so anyone regularly using the Daytripper will actually be travelling cheaper than now, hardly detracting custom. Suspect most of those complaining are people who stocked up on Daytrippers on Black Friday when they were half price on the mobile app.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And most blogs on using the Leeds - York Cityzap have the blogger then heading east on Coastliner so they would have been using a Daytripper Plus or Gold ticket anyway. As has been pointed out the new Gold Flex will be the equivalent of 5 or 10 Daytripper tickets so anyone regularly using the Daytripper will actually be travelling cheaper than now, hardly detracting custom. Suspect most of those complaining are people who stocked up on Daytrippers on Black Friday when they were half price on the mobile app.

Interesting that of the tweets complaining.... all bar one were from enthusiasts. Particularly liked one from a 17 yr old gricer from Chester - might one suggest that quite an atypical customer?

 

[Stan Drews]

Interesting that of the tweets complaining.... all bar one were from enthusiasts. Particularly liked one from a 17 yr old gricer from Chester - might one suggest that quite an atypical customer?

Thankfully, the majority of bus operators understand their businesses better than your average 'enthusiast'!

 

[Deerfold]

The 22 doesn't go through Tad unfortunately

And nor did I claim that it did.

Looking on social media looks like they are getting plenty of complaints. I just can't work out why on a route with very low passenger numbers (Cityzap) they are making a move that will make this even more lower.

As had already been pointed out, the new Gold Flex will be cheaper that the DayTripper for those using it with any frequency, with greater validity.

Transdev don't seem to think the CityZap gets very low passenger numbers, however many times you claim it, on however many forums..

 

[Bantamzen]

Transdev don't seem to think the CityZap gets very low passenger numbers, however many times you claim it, on however many forums..

I've seen the Manchester one setting off a few times in the peaks completely empty from the bus station, and some of the mid afternoon returns similarly devoid of passengers (albeit usually after the Corn Exchange stop, so some may have got off there).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Interesting that of the tweets complaining.... all bar one were from enthusiasts.

These types of long-distance day tickets are normally only bought by the enthusiasts, so that's no wonder.

Do non-gricers ever buy tickets like the Daytripper or the north east Explorer?

I don't see the issue with this, the Daytripper Plus is still absolutely fantastic value. It'll just be annoying to people who stocked up on Daytrippers and now can't use them for what they wanted. That's not great, though, as Transdev should really honour the tickets with the conditions they were when bought.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

These types of long-distance day tickets are normally only bought by the enthusiasts, so that's no wonder.

Do non-gricers ever buy tickets like the Daytripper or the north east Explorer?

I don't see the issue with this, the Daytripper Plus is still absolutely fantastic value. It'll just be annoying to people who stocked up on Daytrippers and now can't use them for what they wanted. That's not great, though, as Transdev should really honour the tickets with the conditions they were when bought.

I do know of some specific instances though - there was a decent trade in Explorers for people visiting their dearests in Acklington Prison - cheapest way of going from some place in Tyneside into Newcastle and then going up through Northumberland.

The reality for many of those tickets is that they were popular with pensioners before the Twirly pass came along. Now, the market is much smaller - who other than an enthusiast is like to want to travel from Rawtenstall to York (for instance)? Most people haven't got the time to waste on four bus journeys usually. It's like people who complain that a firm has two Service 5s - albeit in different towns 20 miles apart. Bad news for gricers who file their timetables in numerical order - not an issue for Mavis in Downend who has no knowledge that there's another in Weston super Mare.

 

[96tommy]

I've seen the Manchester one setting off a few times in the peaks completely empty from the bus station, and some of the mid afternoon returns similarly devoid of passengers (albeit usually after the Corn Exchange stop, so some may have got off there).

I've heard a few people say this now about the Manchester ones. I don't think a bus across the M62 is everyone's cup of tea when trains are quicker and a lot .ore regular. In regard to the York ones I can only say what I see. A few times I've seen 0-3 on, more times when there's been less than 9/10 on and a few times when they look relatively busy (15+)

 

[SCH117X]

Transdev Blazefield do not tolerate services that lose money - witness the axing of the 4 & 5 Hospital routes in Harrogate and the cutting back to Otley of the 62. They will have set a target for both Cityzap services to achieve, the York one they were pleased with its first year return - to quote Alex Hornby in the Bus & Coach Week issue that featured Transdev Blazefield "it achieved its target for Easter 2017 by November 2016." Observations of a few workings can never tell the full story and those that have a few passengers on them will be passengers who the opposing direction may well have travelled on a fullish working - axe those that carry few and the passengers that those workings carried may just disappear altogether. It may be a service where loadings are random - a working one day may be full, the next day very empty.