New Velaro D sets

[j0hn0]

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/10/db-unveils-next-generation-ice.html

What made this one of my favourite trains has now been removed (forward facing lounge behind the driver)

I hope they fit different seats though

 

[gordonthemoron]

Channel Tunnel here we come

 

[j0hn0]

yep

more pics here http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/c1842814.html

look like the same seats

 

[gordonthemoron]

yep, same seats and same carpet

it's a lot shinier than the ones in service

 

[Snapper]

Channel Tunnel here we come

Maybe, maybe not. I asked that question of DBs Dr Volker Kefer at the unveiling. He confirmed that operating through the tunnel is 'an ambition' but the Velaro is too short.


The rules on operating trains through the tunnel have changed but not the one that says they have to be at least 387m long. The Velaro is only 200m

 

[j0hn0]

They have been lobbying for ages about this and the safety rules are currently under review.

Considering the amount of incidents in the tunnel that have never lead to this scenario, or indeed the fact that the scenario of the train being split isn't actually the safest option, I alluded to the fact that this requirement was part of the Eurostar agreement for them to be exclusive channel operators and guarantee a return on investment.

Even if the long train rules still applied, they can run in multiple, simples

 

[Snapper]

The safety rules HAVE been reviewed.

Some stuff has been dropped - such as the needs for seperate power cars and the ability to split the train - but running two Velaros together would affect the economics of the service - and DB have no intention of running it just to lose money.

 

[gordonthemoron]

howabout an ICE from Frankfurt joining an ICE from Amsterdam in Brussels to run together through the tunnel?

 

[j0hn0]

The safety rules HAVE been reviewed.

Some stuff has been dropped - such as the needs for seperate power cars and the ability to split the train - but running two Velaros together would affect the economics of the service - and DB have no intention of running it just to lose money.

cool, so they're your photos I found, sweet. Really top work with all of them. So it looks like an all clear for through the tunnel then!

Sure they wouldn't want to lose money, however, if as Gordon says, an ICE from Frankfurt joining an ICE from Amsterdam at brussels would probably make the money.

I guess it would depend where they pick people up from and how they would do the security stuff because for Eurostar you have to go through the baggage scanning.

Every Eurostar I have been on from Brussels has been packed to the rafters, if there is another service added to that pattern, perhaps they might need to add the second one anyway

But i am no economics expert

 

[gordonthemoron]

most E*s I've used between London & Brussels have been half empty, which explains why the service frequency is so poor

 

[Snapper]

The idea of joining two services isn't a bad one and may be the answer to the problem. However, there is another possibility. Siemens confirmed that Eurostar tendered for new trains last year.

Now, if these were ordered, it wouldn't be difficult for DB to tack on to that order and get trains that can run through the tunnel as the rules stand now.

Once again - it's all down to the economics.

 

[j0hn0]

most E*s I've used between London & Brussels have been half empty, which explains why the service frequency is so poor

I've probably been at peak times to be fair

 

[odol]

Does anybody knows why the max speed is 320 km/h not 350 km/h?
Its four-system, so under what voltage that can be used?

 

[Railway]

More Velaro pictures:

http://www.upmain.fotopic.net/c1350384.html

 

[j0hn0]

anyone know if you can just turn up for a tour at the Krefeld factory?

I don't live all that far away

 

[gordonthemoron]

If current (eurostar) trains have to be 387m long to use the channel tunnel, what about thr North of London sets which are somewhat shorter?

Saw a load of the North of London sets in Paris on Friday

 

[j0hn0]

saw a picure of one stabled in Paris recently with its SNCF sticker on the side.

Watching youtube videos of them on the ECML, they certainly look as if they are right within the limits of the loading gauge, the power cars look really bulky, nice

 

[LucaZone]

looking at the production shots, I guess this CGI:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1418/imo20081200601300dpi991.jpg

Regards

 

[Crossforth]

They look similar, in some respects, to a British Pendolino.

 

[gordonthemoron]

They're much nicer than a Pendo, more space, more leg room, bigger windows, nicer (reclining) seats, better buffet/restaurant which is available for all passengers at reasonable prices.

I'm off on the not so wonderful ICE-T to Berlin tomorrow

 

[shinkansen1966]

I'd like to see DB ICEs running from St Pancras to Cologne or beyond. And it now looks like that's technically possible.

The stumbling block now is finding a way to run a German service, so it meets the requirements of UK immigration & customs. I'd like to see them revert to onboard checks, instead of the nonsense you have to endure at Brussels or Paris.

 

[jopsuk]

Even better would be if we were to grow up (as a country) and join the Schengen zone...

 

[gordonthemoron]

Even better would be if we were to grow up (as a country) and join the Schengen zone...

The daily mail wouldn't like that and the UK Border Agency are too incompetent

 

[shinkansen1966]

Even better would be if we were to grow up (as a country) and join the Schengen zone...

How true. The farce is brought into sharp relief at Paris Nord. You can casually board a Thalys for an international trip to Brussels. But the procedure for the Eurostar for London is like being checked in for a flight to or from North Korea.

Of course, security could be maintained. Just adopt the procedure they have at Spanish stations for boarding AVE trains.

 

[Crossforth]

Of course, security could be maintained. Just adopt the procedure they have at Spanish stations for boarding AVE trains.

What is that?

 

[shinkansen1966]

What is that?

At Spanish stations, they have luggage x-ray machines. Prior to boarding a long distance train, your luggage is either checked on the platform or at ticket control. It's pretty efficient and you can normally arrive 5 mins before depature and still clear the luggage check in time for your train.

From my experience, seems to work well enough.

 

[EWS 58038]

Border control is not an issue as long as it's done at the arrival destination like Ashford or London St. pancras. The UK is creating this mess, so they should deal with it IMO.

As for Velaro D sets, these can be used on cross channel services with limited modifications. More about this issue can be found in this months Modern railways.

 

[Snapper]

As for Velaro D sets, these can be used on cross channel services with limited modifications. More about this issue can be found in this months Modern railways.

That's not actually true. The Velaro D sets comply with some of the rules (now that they've been relaxed) - but they are still too short. It is speculated that this rule would be satisfied if two sets worked through the tunnel together, but I've not seen this confirmed by anyone in the know.

They do look good though:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/c1842814.html

 

[j0hn0]

That's not actually true. The Velaro D sets comply with some of the rules (now that they've been relaxed) - but they are still too short. It is speculated that this rule would be satisfied if two sets worked through the tunnel together, but I've not seen this confirmed by anyone in the know.

They do look good though:

http://www.paulbigland.fotopic.net/c1842814.html

Apparently the length rule and the requirement to split the train has been relaxed which means that I guess the only requirements now relate to operational ability and fire risk

 

[Snapper]

The rule regarding the ability to split the train has been relaxed. The length rules hasn't and still stands.