Newcastle to Munich via Train

[Kryten2340]

Hi,

It is my 40th next July (2021) and I am thinking of arranging a trip to Munich (assuming we can all travel by then).

One of my friends has a phobia of flying so I'm thinking of the train route which will of course be longer but may be more rewarding. Going off of Seat 61 my route would be as follows:

• Newcastle to Kings Cross
• St Pancras to Gare du Nord
• Gare du L'Est to Munich (changing in Stuttgart if necessary)

My immediate question is this. Looking at Seat 61 if I leave London at 11:31 I will be in Munich by 21:36. What happens if there is a delay on LNER and/or Eurostar and I miss a connecting train? Am I covered on the next train.
Any selling points on this journey that I can give to my other mates who don't have a phobia of flying.

Flying would be my preferred option but I can see travelling across France and Germany on a double deck TGV being pretty decent.

 

[bspahh]

Hi,

It is my 40th next July (2021) and I am thinking of arranging a trip to Munich (assuming we can all travel by then).

One of my friends has a phobia of flying so I'm thinking of the train route which will of course be longer but may be more rewarding. Going off of Seat 61 my route would be as follows:

• Newcastle to Kings Cross
• St Pancras to Gare du Nord
• Gare du L'Est to Munich (changing in Stuttgart if necessary)

My immediate question is this. Looking at Seat 61 if I leave London at 11:31 I will be in Munich by 21:36. What happens if there is a delay on LNER and/or Eurostar and I miss a connecting train? Am I covered on the next train.
Any selling points on this journey that I can give to my other mates who don't have a phobia of flying.

Flying would be my preferred option but I can see travelling across France and Germany on a double deck TGV being pretty decent.

If you get a ticket from Newcastle to "London International CIV" https://www.seat61.com/UKconnections.htm then so long as your itinerary has more than the minimium time for the connections

TRAIN TRAVEL IN EUROPE | A beginner's guide

How to travel by train in Europe: Schedules, fares & how to buy tickets.

www.seat61.com

if there are delays for the trains in the UK, or the Eurostar and Railteam high speed trains in Europe, get your ticket marked with "HOTNAT" and you can Hop On The Next Available Train for no extra charge.

 

[StephenHunter]

You might want to look at getting the Nightjet sleeper train from Brussels in at least one direction; it will save you having to make a really early start in Newcastle.

 

[TheJRB]

Also worth considering the Brussels-Cologne-Frankfurt-Ascaffenburg-Nuremberg-Munich route too. Can be cheaper than the Paris option but of course, you don’t get to use a TGV (though I’m biased as I do love an ICE) and you would have to change at Frankfurt Flughafen Fernbahnhof or at the Hauptbahnhof so more logistics to consider. I’ve followed a similar route to go to Leipzig without a hitch before though so can confirm it’s not too much hassle!

 

[superjohn]

There is also the ferry option from Newcastle to Ijmuiden then train onwards from Amsterdam the next day.

Positives:
It breaks up a very long journey.
The ferry element is a novelty.
You can get from Amsterdam to Munich on a very reasonable through DB advance, using DB trains throughout.

Negatives:
The Bus transfer from Ijmuiden to Amsterdam is a faff. There used to be a hydrofoil link but that stopped a few years ago.
If you travel on a Friday night the ferry will be packed with stag night mini-cruisers.
No TGV involved.

The costs are hard to compare as they can vary hugely for all the options. If you can share cabins on the ferry that would bring the cost down per person, eating on board is still shockingly expensive though.

 

[30907]

Things to consider for a journey of that length:
1. what is your plan B for a delay?
Via Paris the connection is comfortable BUT a serious delay means you reach Munich after midnight. Via Brussels there are two tighter connections BUT better backups.
Both are easily do-able from Newcastle, but it would be sensible to allow more than the bare minimum connection in London.
2. Onboard ambience/catering: DB Restaurants are decidedly better than the TGV bar, and IMO 2nd class TGV feels a bit cramped (avoid lower deck if you can!).
3. Do you want to splash out on 1st for the additional space (and LNER breakfast)? If so, book an Advance up to London but give yourself plenty of time for a coffee in the King's Cross lounge. (CIV fares in 1st are high)

 

[cactustwirly]

I would travel via Brussels, it's a more scenic route, and the changes are easy, being within the same station.
With Paris you are going to have to transfer across to Gare du L'Est, addding complexity.

The ICE 3s are very nice, and you still get high speed running, from Cologne - Frankfurt & Nuremburg - Munich, and the Belgian HS lines as well.
Cologne - Frankfurt is very exciting, as you 'feel' the speed, there's a lot of tunnels and changes in gradients, whereas the French route is a lot more flat.

 

[MarcVD]

And on the Brussels to Frankfurt leg, you can book a seat in the 'salon panoramique' at the very front of the train, sit just behind the driver, with just a glass division in between, and see through the windshield. Beware though that in this direction, you need a first class ticket for that.

 

[30907]

With Paris you are going to have to transfer across to Gare du L'Est, addding complexity.

Not quite as easy as KGX to STP, I admit, but hardly a big deal (he says, having done just that on his last trip BC)

 

[Alfonso]

Hi,

It is my 40th next July (2021) and I am thinking of arranging a trip to Munich (assuming we can all travel by then).

One of my friends has a phobia of flying so I'm thinking of the train route which will of course be longer but may be more rewarding. Going off of Seat 61 my route would be as follows:

• Newcastle to Kings Cross
• St Pancras to Gare du Nord
• Gare du L'Est to Munich (changing in Stuttgart if necessary)

My immediate question is this. Looking at Seat 61 if I leave London at 11:31 I will be in Munich by 21:36. What happens if there is a delay on LNER and/or Eurostar and I miss a connecting train? Am I covered on the next train.
Any selling points on this journey that I can give to my other mates who don't have a phobia of flying.

Flying would be my preferred option but I can see travelling across France and Germany on a double deck TGV being pretty decent.

Regardless of what your rights are with the tickets, any significant delay will mean a very late arrival. Unless you are in a real rush I'd sell it as a 2 or 3 centre holiday, with a night in any combination of Paris, Brussels, cologne, Aachen etc. Personally I like propping up the bar in German trains with a weissbeir and currywurst, and breakfast on the bistro/restaurant is a treat, but each to their own.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd definitely choose ICE over TGV. On that route the service concept is the same, but the rolling stock is light years better.

 

[Gordon]

With Paris you are going to have to transfer across to Gare du L'Est, addding complexity.

Hardly, as the distance and walking time from the doors of Nord - to the side entrance of Est is famously short (min 8 mins) . Could be just as short as changing at Brussel


.

 

[Gordon]

Another option is Paris - Zürich - München, see a bit of the Swiss and Austrian alps on the way.


.

 

[MotCO]

If you get a ticket from Newcastle to "London International CIV" https://www.seat61.com/UKconnections.htm then so long as your itinerary has more than the minimium time for the connections

TRAIN TRAVEL IN EUROPE | A beginner's guide

How to travel by train in Europe: Schedules, fares & how to buy tickets.

www.seat61.com

if there are delays for the trains in the UK, or the Eurostar and Railteam high speed trains in Europe, get your ticket marked with "HOTNAT" and you can Hop On The Next Available Train for no extra charge.

2 points. Firstly, to get CIV tickets from Newcastle, you will need to present your Eurostar tickets. Secondly, when I looked into CIVC tickets last year, although I was happy that the train to London and connection to Eurostar was covered by CIV, I was not convinced that further onward connections were. This is from the Seat 61 web site: https://www.seat61.com/UKconnections.htm#London International CIV

"You're legally covered for missed connections:

Your whole journey will be covered by the international railway conditions of carriage, known as Convention Internationale pour le transport des Voyageurs or CIV. Amongst other things, this means that if your UK train is late and you miss a Eurostar through no fault of your own, you're legally entitled to be re-booked on the next available departure even if you ticket is theoretically non-changeable. A useful protection! However, I'm pleased to say that in most cases Eurostar generously extend this protection to anyone making a through journey, whatever type of UK train ticket they have."

No mention of further onward connections; can anyone confirm?

 

[30907]

2 points. Firstly, to get CIV tickets from Newcastle, you will need to present your Eurostar tickets. Secondly, when I looked into CIV tickets last year, although I was happy that the train to London and connection to Eurostar was covered by CIV, I was not convinced that further onward connections were....No mention of further onward connections; can anyone confirm?

Yes, you do need your ES ticket or reference (in theory - not tested it lately) but CIV tickets are walkup. Onward travel is covered by Railteam anyway - if you missed your connection in London you'd have a fresh ES ticket so sorted.

Hardly, as the distance and walking time from the doors of Nord - to the side entrance of Est is famously short (min 8 mins) . Could be just as short as changing at Brussel

Brussels wins hands down if you are on the 1104 from STP, which is the obvious train to aim for from Newcastle - cross-platform connection now!

Another option is Paris - Zürich - München, see a bit of the Swiss and Austrian alps on the way.

Unless you are in a real rush I'd sell it as a 2 or 3 centre holiday, with a night in any combination of Paris, Brussels, cologne, Aachen etc.

Depends how much time you have to spare, but I'd consider an overnight stop outward anyway.
Which brings me back to ticketing - check out the price of a 4-day Interrail.
It covers you all the way from Newcastle, and has no time restrictions, so even allowing an extra £30-40 each way for supplements, IME it can be as cheap as point-to-point tickets. Again, first class is particularly good value.

 

[111-111-1]

If you opt to go via Koln if time permits a IC/EC or an ICE via the Rhine Valley should be considered. Train will call Bone Koblenze Mainz, take longer than the high speed but pretty.

Paris walk from nord - est is well name hotel kuntz

 

[MarcVD]

Hardly, as the distance and walking time from the doors of Nord - to the side entrance of Est is famously short (min 8 mins) . Could be just as short as changing at Brussel

Not quite - notably if you carry some luggage, as the stroll from Nord to Est include some serious flights of stairs, or a large detour if you want to avoid them.

 

[DanielB]

There is also the ferry option from Newcastle to Ijmuiden then train onwards from Amsterdam the next day.

...
The Bus transfer from Ijmuiden to Amsterdam is a faff. There used to be a hydrofoil link but that stopped a few years ago.

There also is an alternative to the bus transfer: at a 5 minute walk from the ferry terminal one can take bus 74 to Beverwijk station followed by a train from there to Amsterdam. With a bus ride of about 20 minutes followed by 40 minutes by train not much slower than the bus transfer, but the scenery is at least more interesting than the view of the Amsterdam harbour the bus transfer will take you through. And besides that: this route allows travel with the oldest Sprinter stock currently running via the oldest railway of The Netherlands (Haarlem-Amsterdam).

However, the route by ICE from Amsterdam to Germany is a relatively slow one as it takes until Cologne before you get onto an high speed line. So not so suitable for an high speed sensation.

 

[43096]

If you opt to go via Koln if time permits a IC/EC or an ICE via the Rhine Valley should be considered. Train will call Bone Koblenze Mainz, take longer than the high speed but pretty.

Paris walk from nord - est is well name hotel kuntz

Are there any ICEs via the Rhine Valley? I've only done it on ICs and would thoroughly recommend it - had one particularly enjoyable run sat in the BordBistro with 103235 on the front.

As for the Nord to Est walk in Paris, I've only done it once and thought it was a pretty squalid experience, but then I'm no fan of France or Paris in particular. It was just a way to get to Switzerland as quickly as possible - things got much better once I walked in to Basel SBB.

 

[Kryten2340]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I think going via Paris is my preferred option as I've never been and I might look into staying overnight there. Plus if I understand things right from Seat 61 the views from the upper deck of a TGV Duplex are meant to be good.
I also forgot to mention one of my pals lives in Nottingham so the natural meeting point for us all is London STP.

Only issue I have now (other than my mate who has the flying phobia) is selling the journey to them as they're the type who would sooner fly and get there quick but as its my 40th I want it to be memorable. I am looking at things as follows:

Flying

• Journey to Newcastle Airport via bus and T&W Metro - 1 hour
• Check in time at airport - 2 hours
• Flight time from NCL to MUN - 2 hours
• Taxi to terminal, get bags and out to S-Bahn station - say 1 hour
• S-Bahn from Airport to City Centre - 1 hour (rounded up)
• Total journey time - 7 hours

Train

• Journey to Newcastle Central Station - 0.5 hours
• Newcastle to London Kings Cross - 3 hours
• St Pancras to Paris Nord - 2.5 hours
• Paris Est to Munich - 5.5 hours (using direct train published on Seat 61)
• Total - 12.5 hours

Now I realise I haven't included transfer time or the Eurostar check in time in the train example but what tips can you guys give to me to help me sell the additional 5.5 hours journey time to my mates who prefer to fly?

 

[111-111-1]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I think going via Paris is my preferred option as I've never been and I might look into staying overnight there. Plus if I understand things right from Seat 61 the views from the upper deck of a TGV Duplex are meant to be good.
I also forgot to mention one of my pals lives in Nottingham so the natural meeting point for us all is London STP.

Only issue I have now (other than my mate who has the flying phobia) is selling the journey to them as they're the type who would sooner fly and get there quick but as its my 40th I want it to be memorable. I am looking at things as follows:

Flying

• Journey to Newcastle Airport via bus and T&W Metro - 1 hour
• Check in time at airport - 2 hours
• Flight time from NCL to MUN - 2 hours
• Taxi to terminal, get bags and out to S-Bahn station - say 1 hour
• S-Bahn from Airport to City Centre - 1 hour (rounded up)
• Total journey time - 7 hours

Train

• Journey to Newcastle Central Station - 0.5 hours
• Newcastle to London Kings Cross - 3 hours
• St Pancras to Paris Nord - 2.5 hours
• Paris Est to Munich - 5.5 hours (using direct train published on Seat 61)
• Total - 12.5 hours

Now I realise I haven't included transfer time or the Eurostar check in time in the train example but what tips can you guys give to me to help me sell this to my mates who prefer to fly?

More sociable.
Bring your own beer and food.
good views from stutgart south

 

[StephenHunter]

You don't have the liquid restrictions you have on aviation, the food is better and there's more legroom.

 

[cactustwirly]

Are there any ICEs via the Rhine Valley? I've only done it on ICs and would thoroughly recommend it - had one particularly enjoyable run sat in the BordBistro with 103235 on the front.

As for the Nord to Est walk in Paris, I've only done it once and thought it was a pretty squalid experience, but then I'm no fan of France or Paris in particular. It was just a way to get to Switzerland as quickly as possible - things got much better once I walked in to Basel SBB.

Yes quite a few, as the ICE 1s and 2s don't use the HS route.

You were very lucky to get a 103!!

 

[43096]

Yes quite a few, as the ICE 1s and 2s don't use the HS route.

I thought all the ICEs south from Köln/Dortmund were ICE3s and go via the NBS? Wasn't aware any ICE1/2 sets went down that way.

You were very lucky to get a 103!!

It was diagrammed at the time and we did that train deliberately!

 

[superjohn]

I thought all the ICEs south from Köln/Dortmund were ICE3s and go via the NBS? Wasn't aware any ICE1/2 sets went down that way.

There are still a few, a quick glance at ICE departures from Bonn using the DB navigator app suggests roughly every two hours in each direction. My own observations are that they are a mix of ICE 1/2 and ICE-T.

 

[Kryten2340]

You don't have the liquid restrictions you have on aviation, the food is better and there's more legroom.

Probably easier to socially distance on a train as well.

 

[JonasB]

Now I realise I haven't included transfer time or the Eurostar check in time in the train example but what tips can you guys give to me to help me sell the additional 5.5 hours journey time to my mates who prefer to fly?

No restrictions on liquids.
No dealing with airport security.
Take an earlier train in the morning and have lunch in Paris.
Lower your carbon footprint A LOT.
Seats that can actually be comfortable.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Now I realise I haven't included transfer time or the Eurostar check in time in the train example but what tips can you guys give to me to help me sell the additional 5.5 hours journey time to my mates who prefer to fly?

Ummm - avoiding destroying the planet?

And on the surface route, the travel time is usable and/or enjoyable. Can anyone actually enjoy the average airport/plan experience?

 

[43096]

Seats that can actually be comfortable.

Although the seat on a plane will be more comfortable for the time it takes to fly than the seat you will likely occupy (LNER 80x) for a similar time to London.

 

[Alfonso]

I think a lot depends on whether you consider the journey an inconvenience or part of your 40th. If it's an inconvenience then it's a hard sell, beyond "it's my birthday so I get to choose" and "Billy-o can't/won't fly". If it's part of your birthday, then selling points are a visit to Paris, perhaps just for a night/lunch, bar cars (though not brilliant on Eurostar, a bit better on TGV, much better on DB), tables of 2/4 seats for talking, eating, playing cards etc, bring your own food/drinks.