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Newcastle to Munich via Train

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bspahh

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I think a lot depends on whether you consider the journey an inconvenience or part of your 40th. If it's an inconvenience then it's a hard sell, beyond "it's my birthday so I get to choose" and "Billy-o can't/won't fly". If it's part of your birthday, then selling points are a visit to Paris, perhaps just for a night/lunch, bar cars (though not brilliant on Eurostar, a bit better on TGV, much better on DB), tables of 2/4 seats for talking, eating, playing cards etc, bring your own food/drinks.

On DB, the beer is on tap, and comes in a glass!

I went from Cologne to Munich a few years ago, and quite a lot South Stuttgart of seemed to be a trundle along at 50-80mph. It will speed up when the Stuttgart 21 project finishes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21

If you fly, the S-Bahn from Munich airport to the city centre takes at least 40 minutes, and doesn't have toilets.
 
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cactustwirly

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On DB, the beer is on tap, and comes in a glass!

I went from Cologne to Munich a few years ago, and quite a lot South of seemed to be a trundle along at 50-80mph. It will speed up when the Stuttgart 21 project finishes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21

If you fly, the S-Bahn from Munich airport to the city centre takes at least 40 minutes, and doesn't have toilets.

The faster ICE services from Frankfurt to Munich travel via Würzburg (not Stuttgart) by the faster high speed lines.
 

bspahh

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The faster ICE services from Frankfurt to Munich travel via Würzburg (not Stuttgart) by the faster high speed lines.

You're right about Stuttgart.

I was on ICE527, in April 2013. The schedule for my trip (thanks to the wonders of www.tripit.com) was:

08:54 Frankfurt
09:23 Aschaffenburg
10:02 Würzburg
11:22 Nürnberg
12:30 München

The timing for the same train tomorrow is 26 minutes quicker between Würzburg and München

Frankfurt(Main)Hbf dep 08:54
Aschaffenburg Hbf dep 09:23
Würzburg Hbf dep 10:04
Nürnberg Hbf dep 11:04
München Hbf arr 12:06
 

JonasB

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Although the seat on a plane will be more comfortable for the time it takes to fly than the seat you will likely occupy (LNER 80x) for a similar time to London.

But on the train you can get up and move around and you don't have to spend all the time in your seat.
 

Jamesrob637

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You're right about Stuttgart.

I was on ICE527, in April 2013. The schedule for my trip (thanks to the wonders of www.tripit.com) was:

08:54 Frankfurt
09:23 Aschaffenburg
10:02 Würzburg
11:22 Nürnberg
12:30 München

The timing for the same train tomorrow is 26 minutes quicker between Würzburg and München

Frankfurt(Main)Hbf dep 08:54
Aschaffenburg Hbf dep 09:23
Würzburg Hbf dep 10:04
Nürnberg Hbf dep 11:04
München Hbf arr 12:06

Wonder how it's become that much faster when there are no fewer intermediate stops. Has a part of the track been re-aligned or does it not stop for as long in some places? I was on a ICE from Nürnberg to München a couple of years ago which seemed to stop for a while in Ingolstadt - mind you it was on a Sunday so the schedule could have allowed for contingency.
 

30907

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An afterthought: if you opt for an overnight stop, why not go for Strasbourg? It's much more compact than Strasbourg Paris and when the European Parliament isn't in session hotels are not too expensive. Different food from Munich and I presume a different selection of beers (can't advise, wine or cider for me!).

PS @Jamesrob637 ISTR there were long-term engineering works between Wuerzburg and Nuremberg in 2013, it was only an hour back in 2008!

Edit: corrected nonsense.
 
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MotCO

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An afterthought: if you opt for an overnight stop, why not go for Strasbourg? It's much more compact than Strasbourg, and when the European Parliament isn't in session hotels are not too expensive. Different food from Munich and I presume a different selection of beers (can't advise, wine or cider for me!).

PS @Jamesrob637 ISTR there were long-term engineering works between Wuerzburg and Nuremberg in 2013, it was only an hour back in 2008!

Did you mean Paris? :oops:
 

bspahh

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Wonder how it's become that much faster when there are no fewer intermediate stops. Has a part of the track been re-aligned or does it not stop for as long in some places? I was on a ICE from Nürnberg to München a couple of years ago which seemed to stop for a while in Ingolstadt - mind you it was on a Sunday so the schedule could have allowed for contingency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg–Würzburg_railway says "The 19th century line had a minimum railway curve radius of 2,000 Bavarian feet (about 600 m) causing numerous speed limits of 100 km/h.[7] Thus, today (as of 2015) the stations of Neustadt (Aisch) Rottendorf (Einfahrkurve) and Kitzingen can only be passed at 100 km/h."

and

"The Aurach viaduct in Emskirchen was rebuilt from May 2014 to November 2016. ... An improvement in the alignment allowed speeds over the new bridge to be raised from 110 to 140 km/h for conventional trains and from 140 to 160 km/h for tilting trains."
 
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Peter Kelford

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Hi,

It is my 40th next July (2021) and I am thinking of arranging a trip to Munich (assuming we can all travel by then).

One of my friends has a phobia of flying so I'm thinking of the train route which will of course be longer but may be more rewarding. Going off of Seat 61 my route would be as follows:

  • Newcastle to Kings Cross
  • St Pancras to Gare du Nord
  • Gare du L'Est to Munich (changing in Stuttgart if necessary)
My immediate question is this. Looking at Seat 61 if I leave London at 11:31 I will be in Munich by 21:36. What happens if there is a delay on LNER and/or Eurostar and I miss a connecting train? Am I covered on the next train.
Any selling points on this journey that I can give to my other mates who don't have a phobia of flying.

Flying would be my preferred option but I can see travelling across France and Germany on a double deck TGV being pretty decent.
Here's what I would suggest: do a triangle between Newcastle and Munich and take the ferry across from North Shields to Ijmuiden.

So: Newcastle (leave in the evening) - Ijmuiden (arrive the following morning) - Amsterdam (stay, explore the city) - ICE to Frankfurt (stay, explore) - ICE to Munich (stay explore) - ICE to Stuttgart (stay, explore if you want) - TGV (double decker) to Paris (this can be done on a direct train if the stop at Stuttgart is cancelled) - Stay in Paris - TGV to Rennes, Brittany (stay, explore) - train to St Malo (this can be done direct from Paris if stopping at Rennes is not wanted) - ferry from St Malo to Portsmouth (N.B: The closest station is Portsmouth and Southsea, 20 minutes' walk away) - train to Southampton - XC from Southampton to Newcastle.
 

Peter Kelford

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There is a service called HOTNAT for Eurostar, TGV, ICE et al, but if the through tickets on the UK side are not booked via Eurostar, then they will not care about what happens between London and Newcastle. Booking such tickets are complicated because the ideal train time might not be available, as might be the class of travel (e.g. you might want to take 1st class between Newcastle and France as food and drink is offered, but not between France and Germany as there is no complimentary catering).
 

30907

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There is a service called HOTNAT for Eurostar, TGV, ICE et al, but if the through tickets on the UK side are not booked via Eurostar, then they will not care about what happens between London and Newcastle. Booking such tickets are complicated because the ideal train time might not be available, as might be the class of travel (e.g. you might want to take 1st class between Newcastle and France as food and drink is offered, but not between France and Germany as there is no complimentary catering).
https://raileurope.co.uk/en (ex Loco2) will book the whole lot at once, mixed classes and all, but tends to have shorter booking horizons than the individual operators.
 

cactustwirly

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Here's what I would suggest: do a triangle between Newcastle and Munich and take the ferry across from North Shields to Ijmuiden.

So: Newcastle (leave in the evening) - Ijmuiden (arrive the following morning) - Amsterdam (stay, explore the city) - ICE to Frankfurt (stay, explore) - ICE to Munich (stay explore) - ICE to Stuttgart (stay, explore if you want) - TGV (double decker) to Paris (this can be done on a direct train if the stop at Stuttgart is cancelled) - Stay in Paris - TGV to Rennes, Brittany (stay, explore) - train to St Malo (this can be done direct from Paris if stopping at Rennes is not wanted) - ferry from St Malo to Portsmouth (N.B: The closest station is Portsmouth and Southsea, 20 minutes' walk away) - train to Southampton - XC from Southampton to Newcastle.

I wouldn't recommend the Portsmouth to St Malo ferry as it's quite expensive and takes 8 hours.
And I don't think it takes foot passengers.

You could however go to Poole with Condor Ferries, with a stopover in the channel Islands
 

jfollows

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I've used the Saint Malo to Portsmouth service twice as a foot passenger, only in that direction, and booked a cabin for the day because it's a daytime trip.
First time returning from Limoux via Carcassonne, Bordeaux, Nantes and Rennes, overnight in Saint Malo, then day trip to Portsmouth.
Second time returning from Paris, overnight in Saint Malo, day trip to Portsmouth.
I'd do it again, enjoyable both times.
Then overnight in Portsmouth, before train to Waterloo, cross to Euston, and home to Wilmslow.
Last time was a number of years ago (something like 2012 I guess; 31 March 2012 on further examination) and things could have changed since then of course.
It's a bit of a walk from the ferry port into the town centre in Portsmouth, but I once worked in Baltic House overlooking the roundabout at the (then) end of the M275, so it was interesting to me to revisit.
 

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bspahh

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superjohn

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Perhaps they have stopped taking foot passengers for now, because of the virus.
Exactly that, the foot passenger boarding process involves a lot of queuing, a crowded security check area, a bus transfer and then a narrow staircase/gangway onto the ship. As such it is really unsuited to social distancing. Foot passengers are not being taken for the time being. I don’t think they are sailing at all at the moment and future bookings will be taken on a limited capacity basis.
 

cactustwirly

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Exactly that, the foot passenger boarding process involves a lot of queuing, a crowded security check area, a bus transfer and then a narrow staircase/gangway onto the ship. As such it is really unsuited to social distancing. Foot passengers are not being taken for the time being. I don’t think they are sailing at all at the moment and future bookings will be taken on a limited capacity basis.

They are sailing a reduced freight only service atm, but not to St-Malo.
 

Porty

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Don't think anyone has mentioned the alternative sea crossing on Stena Line Harwich to Hoek van Holland. Fares can be surprisingly competitive and its a very easy and comfortable journey. You could leave Nottingham at around 5pm via London or Peterborough and get the night boat arriving in Holland at about 0730. Food and drink far cheaper than the Newcastle boat with comfortable cabins. Direct access to tram then train. There is excellent information about this service on the seat 61 website. Fares get you to any station in Netherlands so you could travel to Amsterdam, for example, and then on to Munich.
On the return leg the day crossing of the boat would also be feasible (from memory leaves at about 1400) whereas outbound its too early if travelling from Nottingham.

I'd personally think about doing something interesting in at least one direction as there's no need to do the same thing both ways.
Not sure about onwards to Munich but the DB app should give you prices. I was meant to be using this route next month to go on the direct Amsterdam to Basel DB train, but have abandoned the trip due to the dreaded coronavirus.
 

DanielB

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Direct access to tram then train.
Not a tram, but a metro. (Although the seats in the Rotterdam metro system are identical to the tram seats)

Fares get you to any station in Netherlands so you could travel to Amsterdam, for example, and then on to Munich.
For a trip towards Munich I'd advise to travel to Utrecht instead as that's much less a detour trough The Netherlands and the ICE from Amsterdam also stops there.
To do so there are multiple options:
- Metro B to Schiedam Centrum, take a train from there to Rotterdam Central and change for Utrecht Central
- Metro B to Beurs, change there for metro D or E to Rotterdam Central and change for Utrecht Central
- Metro B to Rotterdam Alexander, change there for Utrecht Central

The latter option is provides the fastest journey time, but involves changing at a station which currently is being rebuilt and having very limited facilities. Travelling via Rotterdam Central is slightly slower, but the station has much better facilities and as well worth to have a look around as it has a pretty spectacular design.
 

beermaddavep

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OK, reality check. If you honestly think that you can get from somewhere in NE England (I live near Peterlee by the way) to Bavaria by rail in 12 .5 hours, good luck. It'll be more like 17-20. But I suspect you already know that. It sounds like you want to celebrate your birthday with some fun rail journeys. My advice would be fly, that'll cost you around 200 per person. That will be at least 100-200 pounds per person less than going by rail. That way, you all arrive in Munich in a good mood, not shattered after a full day's slog by rail across what tbh is mostly some of the most yawn inspiring scenery in the world, cramped on a crap IEP then an equally crap TGV. Then use the money you have all saved to buy some 1st class Bayern Laender tickets, and do some far more interesting rail journeys whilst you are all there! The added advantage of this, is that when you are coming home, tired, hung over and ratty, you aren't going to have to put up with endless twisting about how long it's taking, how much it has cost etc. In a nutshell, if your mates aren't serious rail enthusiasts, don't put them through the misery of a 15 hour day each way. Remember, to non railfans, sitting on a train is on a par with sitting in a hospital waiting room. PS I do hope you will still be able to catch one of the beasts in my profile picture, snapped at Fussen a few years ago 8-)
 

Peter Kelford

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Peter Kelford

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Personally, I've always resorted to taking the train and I don't go where the train journey is too long (e.g. Nice). Going through France gives me a good opportunity to get some pieces of ballast from the low platforms to use a weights and take some photos.
 

cactustwirly

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OK, reality check. If you honestly think that you can get from somewhere in NE England (I live near Peterlee by the way) to Bavaria by rail in 12 .5 hours, good luck. It'll be more like 17-20. But I suspect you already know that. It sounds like you want to celebrate your birthday with some fun rail journeys. My advice would be fly, that'll cost you around 200 per person. That will be at least 100-200 pounds per person less than going by rail. That way, you all arrive in Munich in a good mood, not shattered after a full day's slog by rail across what tbh is mostly some of the most yawn inspiring scenery in the world, cramped on a crap IEP then an equally crap TGV. Then use the money you have all saved to buy some 1st class Bayern Laender tickets, and do some far more interesting rail journeys whilst you are all there! The added advantage of this, is that when you are coming home, tired, hung over and ratty, you aren't going to have to put up with endless twisting about how long it's taking, how much it has cost etc. In a nutshell, if your mates aren't serious rail enthusiasts, don't put them through the misery of a 15 hour day each way. Remember, to non railfans, sitting on a train is on a par with sitting in a hospital waiting room. PS I do hope you will still be able to catch one of the beasts in my profile picture, snapped at Fussen a few years ago 8-)

Or they could get some 3/5 day interrail passes, probably cheaper than booking separate tickets to Munich, plus it gives you 2 extra days validity to do whatever.
ICE trains are a lot nicer than TGVs, they're probably the best intercity/high speed EMU in Europe.
The scenery through Germany is a lot more scenic than the route through France, especially south of Frankfurt along the Main-Spessart railway.

£200 for flights is expensive tbh, sounds like you were flying Lufthansa or something!
You can fly to Munich with easyJet for around £40 each way pp, excluding hold luggage, but hand luggage is perfectly adequate fora few days.
 

Kryten2340

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Or they could get some 3/5 day interrail passes, probably cheaper than booking separate tickets to Munich, plus it gives you 2 extra days validity to do whatever.
ICE trains are a lot nicer than TGVs, they're probably the best intercity/high speed EMU in Europe.
The scenery through Germany is a lot more scenic than the route through France, especially south of Frankfurt along the Main-Spessart railway.

£200 for flights is expensive tbh, sounds like you were flying Lufthansa or something!
You can fly to Munich with easyJet for around £40 each way pp, excluding hold luggage, but hand luggage is perfectly adequate fora few days.

Re Easyjet. Yes you can fly to Munich using them however for me it means a trip to Manchester or Edinburgh by train so still the best part of a 3 hour commute by train to Manchester Airport from Newcastle. Edinburgh 90 mins up to Waverley plus the bus/tram.

In a normal situation I would fly but the friend with the flying phobia has never left this country and I am determined to get him away somehow so if that's by train so be it. Once he's on the continent then I expect he will get over his fear of flying rather quickly.
 

MotCO

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Is it out of the question for your flying phobia friend and you to go by rail, and your other mates to fly? Your there and back trip may take 6 days, whereas flying may only take 4 days.
 

Kryten2340

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Is it out of the question for your flying phobia friend and you to go by rail, and your other mates to fly? Your there and back trip may take 6 days, whereas flying may only take 4 days.

That is one thing I am thinking of yes, however the others are pretty decent in that they have a 'we never leave a man behind' rule. As long as there's beer they won't be too fussed.
 

MotCO

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That is one thing I am thinking of yes, however the others are pretty decent in that they have a 'we never leave a man behind' rule. As long as there's beer they won't be too fussed.

They won't be leaving anyone behind if you consider the holiday starts in Munich, not at the airport / station in England.
 
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