Next Labour Leader - Confirmed as Keir Starmer

[Ferret]

Tedious.

As are people who slate capitalism without understanding they’d not be where they are without it.

 

[433N]

As are people who slate capitalism without understanding they’d not be where they are without it.

I hope you are not including me in that, because if you care to look back and educate yourself, you will find that I haven't.

It is just tedious and lazy to extol the virtues of capitalism without considering that it might have outlived its utility or being able to articulate what it is that is so great about it or being able to put up even a cursory defence of it.

Just resort to calling me a thickie for not being able to see what you can't articulate ; that'll win an argument in your book.

Modern Britain, eh ?

 

[Ferret]

I hope you are not including me in that, because if you care to look back and educate yourself, you will find that I haven't.

It is just tedious and lazy to extol the virtues of capitalism without considering that it might have outlived its utility or being able to articulate what it is that is so great about it or being able to put up even a cursory defence of it.

Just resort to calling me a thickie for not being able to see what you can't articulate ; that'll win an argument in your book.

Modern Britain, eh ?

You clearly don’t understand the virtues of capitalism anywhere near as well as you think you know the downsides, given you didn’t understand my original comment. I suggest it’s actually you who needs to educate yourself.

 

[433N]

You clearly don’t understand the virtues of capitalism anywhere near as well as you think you know the downsides, given you didn’t understand my original comment. I suggest it’s actually you who needs to educate yourself.

Tedious.

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone else have anything to say on the subject of the next Labour Leader?

 

[Aictos]

Does anyone else have anything to say on the subject of the next Labour Leader?

Yes and that’s whoever is appointed Leader has a uphill battle to convince the voters that they are capable of forming a alternative government to the Conservatives but also if Long-Bailey is elected then Labour will be out in the wilderness for a very long time.

 

[cactustwirly]

A capitalist economy has obviously allowed us to develop to the level we’re at now.

However, us and the government should realise that capitalism promotes inequality and that the state should step in to try and remedy that.

But there needs to be inequality, or else no one would become a Doctor, or a university professor or anything with a high skill set.
That's why socialism doesn't work.
The people in low skilled jobs should be paid the least obviously, but it should still be a liveable wage, like something like the national living wage?
I'm completely against socialism, but also against the unregulated American capitalism.
I think what we have in the UK and EU atm is the right sort of balance, it's capitalism but heavily regulated by the government.

 

[coradiafan2000]

As a "naive young person", all I've seen as a result of the Conservatives and capitalism is more people sleeping on the street, and more people using foodbanks. But we don't talk about that because we've sort of just stopped caring because it's become normal, brexit is far more news worthy it seems.

I agree that socialism may not work, but capitalism is not without flaws either. Ideally I'd like to see a government bring out the best of both. But again, I'm young and have a limited interest/ knowledge in politics.

I just want the next Labour leader to make the party seem like a viable opposition again. I'd like to see Lisa Nandy, although it probably won't happen.

 

[Aictos]

There seems to be a awful lot of discussion on Capitalism vs Socialism and not on the topic of the Labour Leadership Elections so feel free to continue discussing both ideologies in a thread I’ve started for this.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/socialism-vs-capitalism.198629/

Hopefully we can keep the discussion here on topic now, hope this is okay @yorkie ?

 

[Busaholic]

Neither Long-Bailey nor Phillips would advance the Labour cause with the non-partisan at the ballot box imo, though I like Jess Phillips and would be sad if there wasn't a place in party politics for the maverick. Thornberry is very intelligent but holds absolutely no chance of the leadership thanks partly to the left now regarding her as some type of traitor, and others citing her Islington background and accusing her of being too 'grand' , the latter an unfair charge I feel, but perceived class barriers bedevil the Labour party as well as our society in general. Hey-ho.

 

[eastdyke]

I said up-thread that my view was to answer 'What is the point of the Labour Party?' before leadership. I still believe that to be true. Buy hey ho ....
News clips seen today (content obviously highly selected) left me with the feeling that none has the gravitas to lead the most important (to me) Country in the world.
Thornberry: smug - I have stood at the despatch box therefore I am.
Starmer: action man - all fronts at once.
The others: the mannerisms of a cross between 'Young Scientists of the Year' and 'Live at The Apollo'.
Anybody else, perhaps from someone actually at The Hustings?

 

[Busaholic]

Wouldn't Keir Starmer be the first Labour leader with a knighthood? Would others seek to use this fact to undermine him?

 

[swt_passenger]

Wouldn't Keir Starmer be the first Labour leader with a knighthood? Would others seek to use this fact to undermine him?

Surely they’d just give everyone else a knighthood? The whole point is to level things downwards after all...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Disagree. Inequality, competition and conflict are drivers of human development and growth. The government should ensure a minimum, dignified standard of living - and the same rights - for all its citizens but it should not strive to make them equal.

You missed war from that list. It is a very sad fact that in the course of human history, war and conflict have driven development.

 

[AlterEgo]

Looks like Jess Phillips is about to withdraw from the leadership race, having committed seppuku by going on Mumsnet and insisting to the mums that trans women are women.

 

[DarloRich]

Looks like Jess Phillips is about to withdraw from the leadership race, having committed seppuku by going on Mumsnet and insisting to the mums that trans women are women.

or, perhaps, more likely because she doesn't have the endorsement of any CLP or unions ( or I think affiliates). But yeah, mumsnet.

( and she didn't attend the GMB hustings thus giving up any chance they might back her)

 

[AlterEgo]

or, perhaps, more likely because she doesn't have the endorsement of any CLP or unions ( or I think affiliates). But yeah, mumsnet.

( and she didn't attend the GMB hustings thus giving up any chance they might back her)

Indeed and I rather suspect that's why she went live on Mumsnet last night to commit the final act of irrelevance. No other candidate has been daft enough to punch the beehive.

It does look increasingly likely that Labour will be out of power for a considerable time. I've cooled a lot on Starmer - his campaign has been tepid; Long-Bailey is a nutcase.

 

[Mag_seven]

It does look increasingly likely that Labour will be out of power for a considerable time. I've cooled a lot on Starmer - his campaign has been tepid; Long-Bailey is a nutcase.

I must confess none of them fill me with any confidence - I wish Andy Burnham was an MP as he seems sound.

 

[Goldfish62]

I must confess none of them fill me with any confidence - I wish Andy Burnham was an MP as he seems sound.

I'm really not sure about Burnham. I voted for him in 2015, but as GM mayor he seems to be all mouth and no trousers. Sadiq Khan similarly.

 

[DarloRich]

I've cooled a lot on Starmer - his campaign has been tepid; Long-Bailey is a nutcase.

Starmer is least damaging. It has got that bad.

 

[Goldfish62]

Starmer is least damaging. It has got that bad.

I agree.

The thing is, I don't think Labour are going to win the next GE anyway. It's a case of how badly they lose. If Starmer leads them and they gain some seats the Corbyn loons will still blame him for losing and say if RLB had been leader Labour would have won. Perhaps it really does need RLB to be leader so Labour can lose even more badly next time. The Hard Left clearly didn't get the message this time.

 

[DarloRich]

The Hard Left clearly didn't get the message this time.

They never will "get it" - they think that Labour lost because there wasn't enough crackpot Corbynism. They are a cult.

 

[TheBigD]

For those with an hour to spare, Matthew Goodwin spells out the issues facing the Labour party...

 

[Struner]

Does he need over an hour?...

 

[Bevan Price]

Does he need over an hour?...

He and others could talk for a year or more - and still fail to convince the militants that they are the main reason why Labour lost the election.

 

[Struner]

Yip, my idea exactly.

 

[DaveHarries]

I am not a Labour voter (and never have been) but I would prefer Kier Starmer. Rebecca Long-Bailey (or, as I hear some people call her, Rebecca Wrong-Daily) is too much of a socialist / Corbynite for my liking and people of that sort will never succeed in encouraging me to vote red as I think that kind of government would not be best for this country. JC had a couple of policies, such as the four-day working week, that put me off him: I would rather work a full 5-day week.

If the late Jo Cox had become leader she probably would have won the election.

Dave

 

[AlterEgo]

Starmer remains the bookies' favourite to win the contest: https://m.skybet.com/politics/labour-party/event/18330164

I haven't heard much about his vision to be honest and can't see how he can match Johnson. I've heard him talk about "social justice" and "climate justice" and that's really been enough to make me yawn.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They never will "get it" - they think that Labour lost because there wasn't enough crackpot Corbynism. They are a cult.

Agreed and also as the extreme left (like the extreme right) love a good conspiracy, then it won't be their fault either. It will be a cabal of the media, aided by centrists, big business, the Rothchilds, the Scunthorpe tourist board and anyone else.

And of course, they "get it". It's the wider populace that just didn't "get it". They "won the argument" and the "policies were well received on the doorstep" and it was only because of Brexit and the unparalleled attacks on the dear leader that they had the worst electoral performance since 1935.

It's frankly delusional. I was probably not far from DarloRich on Boxing Day, soaking up the total football. This was Darlington, newly won Tory seat. It was wall to wall handwringing over Palestine.....except it wasn't.

People didn't vote Labour because they didn't like the sitting MP. They wanted certainty that Brexit would be enacted, and that Corbyn was electorally toxic. As for the manifesto, people might have gone for some of the policies. I mean, who would want more money for the NHS? Or to increase spending on education but they knew that "everything for free....we'll just tax the dotcoms and the super rich" was unrealistic and untenable.

At the outset of this, I posted that I liked Lisa Nandy but wondered if she might get enough support. My head went Starmer, my heart feared RLB as the one true keeper of the misguided Momentum flame. Not much has really changed that.

For deputy, I said I'd go for Angela Rayner to perhaps keep the left wing engaged and, TBH, I think she's nailed on. Why anyone would go for Richard Burgon, I have no idea. For a trained and experienced solicitor, he comes across as unprepared, unplanned, and can barely communicate a point.

 

[Busaholic]

Unite and their ubiquitous spokesman McCluskey have refused to take their heads out of the sand and are endorsing Long-Bailey and Burgon. McCluskey was asked on 'Newsnight' just now why Burgon and not Angela Rayner, given that he had stated that it was necessary to get more working class people at the top in Labour, but (typical McCluskey) he then started to harangue the interviewer in his usual soft spoken but threatening style. Labour have no chance while this bullyboy continues to exert undue influence. Depressing.