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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bald Rick, 13 Dec 2019.
Is that right. I suspect I could introduce you to lots of people who disagree.
Whoops! Must've missed that one through the discussion about independence...
Working for Camden Council in the 1970s, in the small section I worked in we had two Jeffs, one being a member of the Socialist Workers Group and the other a member of the International Marxist Group. They loathed each other and, if one needed to communicate with the other, it had to be done via a third party. I couldn't stand either of them.
Ahhhhh the downfall of communism - everyone is a slightly different communist, so they all hate each other.
Life of Brian anyone?
more like animal farm lol
Any more suggestions for the next labour labour? If n so feel free to reply below, but if not I will close the thread as this isn't a politics 'master thread'
Ok one not mention is Daniel Zeichner mp for Cambridge
After a period of reflection I think I've come round to Bald Rick's second choice of Hilary Benn.
He has the right heritage, a seat far enough North to be outside London, and although most of us have forgotten what Parliament used to be like before the Referendum, this might be a useful reminder...
Significantly he was advocating intervention, in defiance of his Leader.
Obviously he has the Remain tag, but perhaps he could repent on the basis he was doing what he did to ensure voices were heard, rather than being an outright Remainer.
(I'd suggest Hilary Benn's campaign edits out 0:42 to 0:57 if they use the clip. It could backfire somewhat in light of recent events)
Pete Lowe (as a joke)
His qualifications include:
Former Leader of Dudley Council
Former Opposition Leader of Dudley Council - during that time he made it his personal mission to try and derail his opposition, Patrick Harley)
3 x PPC for Stourbridge (failed each time)
WM Metro Mayor candidate (with Birmingham Momentum refusing to back him!)
Former Charge nurse
Wolves season ticket holder
And finally pro bus/train
No need to suspect sir. I am sure you are correct. All I posted was my opinion. A bit like asking “ which is best bourbon or scotch?” It is purely opinion.
No. The answer is single malt. Bourbon is a biscuit isnt it
Well. Hitler and Stalin were great leaders too ... your point is ?
Lots of double and triple posting today.
I don't normally get involved in the political aspects of this forum but this is my take on the leadership question....
There is a problem with the Labour Party in that the levers of power (such as the NEC etc) are now concentrated in the Momentum schism of the party. Therefore, whilst Jezza has to go, then some other acolytes (probably some ticket of Long-Bailey and Burgon) will be pushed forward, maintaining the social purity of the People's Front of Judea. There is already the line being pedalled that it was purely Brexit and that Corbyn's image and personality had nothing to do with the scale of defeat, and nor were the policies. It was the dreaded MSM, and even the electorate just "didn't get it". If you didn't go for Corbyn, you were against NHS spending or social justice or improving the lot of the poorest in society.
Frankly, that is delusional. The electorate should never be blamed. The fact is that the Labour leadership were, and I'm not hearing anything from the Momentum element to show they've twigged, hopelessly out of touch with what people actually wanted. Left wing activists in an Islington coffee shop may worry about the two state Palestinian question..... They don't give a flying about it in Consett or Wrexham or Leigh. Whilst most people trust Labour with the NHS more, the leadership had no credibility with the "you can have everything and it will be free cos we're gonna tax the top 5% and Amazon more" - the Tories were more believable despite having a pathological liar at the helm.
I'm with Alan Johnson. This lot need clearing out and people who actually understand what people actually care about. I'm absolutely fuming that this splinter group have taken over the party and still don't get why they can't win an election. There's even talk that they just weren't left wing enough..... it's mental.
Burgon is as thick as mince and is similarly mired with the anti-semitism. Long-Bailey/Cat Smith are dreadful. I don't see Thornberry or Keir Starmer having the appeal but KS needs to have a senior role as does Hilary Benn.
Lisa Nandy comes across well and I'd have her with perhaps Rayner (soft left to mollify most of that side of the party).
He had an appalling interview with, I think, Andrew Neil, in which he refused to answer any question and trundled out the same old story in apparent complete denial of reality. His only value during the election campaign was to do this, in other words to stick to the Corbyn line, but now this means that he'd be a dreadful choice for any post in future Labour.
No-one has mentioned David Lammy. OK he's a remainer and that would count against him but he's called for the party to get a grip on anti-semitism and take a stance on brexit, not stand in the middle of the road and risk getting run over. He's been a great speaker in the HoC.
Does the EU stance of the next Labour leader actually matter now? Considering our departure is almost inevitable, by the time the next leader comes in, plus the next election not likely to be for years (2024 currently), the 2016 vote would technically have been met, making their stance less of an issue?
No, but the new Leader still has to argue the case against leaving with no deal, being tied to US food safety standards/selling the NHS etc. And he/she has to be someone able to stand on the "world stage" as a credible states-person.
One of the worse offenders for wanting to overturn the referendum. IMO he’d poll about the same as Corbyn outside London.
Liz Kendall has always impressed me when she used to appear on Andrew Neil's late night TV show, now binned. She gives a lot of thought to things and doesn't trot out a trite answer, unlike previous Labour incumbent on the programme Diane Abbott. If Caroline Flint hadn't been defeated at the election I'd have put her forward as well. Stella Creasy is thoughtful too and not afraid to express an opinion which might not be 'on message'. But for whatever's sake, get on with it. Time is of the essence, as in so many things.
OK you've convinced me, Diane Abbott it is then.
Really? But i doubt she knows what a European Union is. She is probably one of the other key reasons why Labour have failed.
It was quite funny when she was celebrating Jo Swinson loosing her seat, perhaps she didn't realise Labour were making the biggest losses of the night.
Chi Onwurah? (Probably spelt that wrong!)
As if she is capable of counting all those losses....
True, i really don't get how she's lasted so long at the front of politics as she clearly has the intellectual abilities of a 5 year old. I wonder how she would be doing if she wasn't in such a strong Labour constituency.
Instead of writing about it on here, I might for the first time in my life join a political party. £4.30 pcm to join Labour and actually get some small say in the matter. Kier Starmer for me.
Groan! Do I really have to put irony brackets around my statement!
That's good. Be interesting how you get on at a branch meeting suggesting anyone other than an ultra momentum member for leader.
Unfortunately this is likely to be the case. Maybe time for a split? Leave the hard left to their fantasies and pull in some of the left-leaning Lib-Dem voters. Or let the Labour Party continue to drift to the left and embrace the Lib-Dems and the Greens as they start to occupy the territory of "New Labour"
my head says Kier Starmer. my gonads say Angela Raynor
seriously though I am considering re-joining Labour. They need to forget this Socialism nonsense and get back to being a serious Social Democrat party.
Labour need to choose somebody who the Tories fear. To sort-of -quote Richie Benaud, the best tactical move is always the move your opponent least wants you to play. Imagine then the howls of laughter on the Tory benches as Rebecca Long-Bailey and Richard ‘Einstein’ Burgon stand up at PMQs. Hilarious.
This is another policy line the new Labour leader desperately needs to drop. It was just another one of the things that diminished Corbyn's credibility.
The real issue is about funding healthcare. Corbyn tried to develop the issue to appeal to the anti-US/anti-Trump sentiment in his loyal following.
For all his waving around of documents in press conferences, the evidence was lacking. The best I could discern from it is a trade deal with the US may result in the price of some medicines going up. That is an issue about funding, not about "selling off the NHS".
US companies may well get (more) involved in providing NHS services, as a whole range of private companies already do. And Labour are not squeaky-clean on this issue thanks to the Blair/Brown PFI disaster(s).
A new Labour leader will need to acknowledge that private healthcare is not the exclusive preserve of the mega-rich. Labour voters use private facilities as well. There are small private hospitals/treatment centres popping up all over the place, and if the NHS has sent you to one of them for an operation because it is cheaper - and you've received prompt treatment in a clean modern building - then the bogeyman of "selling off the NHS" doesn't have the same bite.
And if Labour's appeal is going to be to London and comfortably off socialists rather than the working class, then the new Leader will need to have a think about how many of them already have private health insurance or some form of workplace healthcare benefit.
It all comes back to where Labour want to position themselves. As a far-left protest group that cannot get elected, or a centre ground party that develops policies based on practicalities rather than dogma.