Next Labour Leader

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bald Rick, 13 Dec 2019.

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  1. Arglwydd Golau

    Arglwydd Golau Established Member

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    That's a far more sensible critique of that article by Luke Akehurst, whose right-wing zealotry matches some of that from the left. From what I've read of him he's not someone I'd like to have a pint with.
     
  2. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Were they? I mean, we all like to have more nurses and a stronger NHS, and more teachers, and lower rail fares, and lower utility bills, and perhaps free broadband - that's all motherhood and apple pie. However, I'm not convinced that the electorate actually believed it was deliverable, or at least without increases to their tax take.

    However, I do generally agree with much of what you say. The party must move on from Brexit. Root out the cancer of anti-semitism/anti-Zionists. A younger leader with broad appeal and sensible, deliverable policies that back up a coherent vision, not some Trotskyite wet dream of state control and sticking it to the capitalist pig dogs.
     
  3. Comstock

    Comstock Member

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    You didn't have to become a member!!

    You did have to declare you weren't a member of any other political party, although I don't think they can have checked very much because loads of Tory members were boasting online that they'd voted for Corbyn.
     
  4. Senex

    Senex Established Member

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    Did anyone see the Channel 4 News item yesterday evening (https://www.channel4.com/news/corbyn-guilty-of-preening-narcissism-says-former-labour-mp-mary-creagh) about 7 minutes in when Siobhain McDonagh MP and Mary Creagh ex-MP were interviewed and spoke utterly damningly about the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn and his clique of advisers. Mary Creagh: "We have in Jeremy a man without honour and without shame - and a type of preening narcissism that means he thinks he's still got something left to offer the Labour movement." On the other side, we have the reports from last night's Labour meeting of the 10-minute speech by the new MP for Leicester East, Claudia Webbe, the parachuted Corbynista warmly supporting him. How far was/is the PLP deeply split numerically between the strong supporters of the Corbyn leadership and apparently the equally strong opponents now making their views so clear? Which side is likely to be able to win the PLP vote for a new leader before things go out to the members?
     
  5. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Didn't they tighten up the rules for the 2nd time Steptoe got elected after his crashing defeat in a vote of no confidence?

    How long before he calls for another election? :lol:
     
  6. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Right wing zealotry, hahahaha! Amazing.
     
  7. notlob.divad

    notlob.divad Established Member

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    They don't have to win a PLP vote. The system of electing the leader is different from that of the Tories. I don't know the ins and outs, but I think basically they just need to get 5% or something like that of Labour MPs to back them for them to make it to the member ballot. So actually if there are more MPs and potential candidates from oneside of the party, it plays against them a little as they are more likely to split the votes of members of that side of the party. It is why the MPs who wanted to bring down Corbyn in 2016 united around Owen Smith to unify the vote.
     
  8. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Given that you have Andrew Murray as a Special Advisor to Corbyn, a man whose 40 year membership of the Communist Party only stopped in 2016, most people are to the right of the leadership.

    Corbynwasright trending on twitter.... not according to those people who the Labour party need to win over.
     
  9. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Emily Thornberry has confirmed she will be standing as Labour leader.
     
  10. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    The £3 army................................

    Motion carried

    The problem was threefold:
    • Corbyn
    • Brexit
    • The manifesto

    While the policies advocated by Corbyn were not universally loathed as individual ideas, they were not considered feasible as a whole. Many people felt that they could not be paid for and that the people paying would not be the super rich.

    The answer is not, as many Corbyn fan boys on social media seem to think, to be even MORE "woke" left. It is to select a sensible number of left policies, learn how to present them professionally, play the game professionally ( not complain about the rules), advocate strongly for them but also develop a message that appeals to middle class, middle England.

    That means saying aspiration and wanting to do well is not a bad thing. It is about saying that we want to help you succeed, will ensure everyone has an opportunity to succeed, that the game will be fair but that if things go wrong there will be a safety net. It is not about trying to tell people that the safety net is all that matters or all they should aspire to!
     
  11. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Not a hope. The press will continue to bring up the Rochester tweet, let alone the recent Caroline Flint revelations.

    I think it'll be Long-Bailey on the basis that she's a Corbynista (so can keep the pure flame burning until the electorate understand that they're wrong :rolleyes:), she's Northern, she's a woman.
     
  12. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Eviscerating stuff by Creagh ( and she is not the only one!) Corbyn and his clown army are like some tin pot third world regime, living in a bunker thinking everything is fine while the country burns.

    They ALL need to go. Now.

    Agreed. Clueless.
     
  13. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    I can't disagree with that.

    We all know Brexit was a significant factor. However, the Corbynistas seem to think that the dear leader wasn't an issue (except in that he was vilified by the Tory press unfairly). Well, aside from the weak leadership, the lack of action on anti-semitism, the associations with IRA and other terrorists, the low energy approach....

    The manifesto had some good policies but people didn't believe it was deliverable. The idea that you could simply tax the rich (and they'd hang around to allow that to happen) was left wing, 6th form common room politics. It had no credibility and no wonder it couldn't cut through. Also, Boris is good at doing the positive speech....Labour just never had that aspirational, visionary view.

    As you say, the idea of the apparatchiks saying...."we didn't win because we weren't left wing or bold enough" is absolute folly. Racking up more votes in Liverpool or London isn't going to win an election. It's those seats that switched in 2010 that are where Labour needs to win but you see how far they are from that...

    • Amber Valley (mix of rural Derbyshire and some ex pit villages) was lost in 2010 by 536 and has gone to 4200, 8300 and now 16900 in subsequent elections
    • Cannock Chase was lost in 2010 by 3200, and has gone by 4800, 8300, and now 19900 subsequently
    It will be one hell of a move to get back the ground they lost this time, but to get Scottish and the what were once English marginals..... It's going to be a long slog for Labour.

    PS no wonder we're of similar minds - same town, same football team ;)
     
  14. Arglwydd Golau

    Arglwydd Golau Established Member

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    I thought you might like that!
     
  15. Arglwydd Golau

    Arglwydd Golau Established Member

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    Seriously, is it not possible to be a zealot on the right of the party - as Labour Party members you must have seen some?
     
  16. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Scotland is gone. Labout aint getting it back short of resurrecting the ghosts of Wallace and The Bruce and getting them to endorse the party!

    Look at Darlo. Hardly a Tory town. Labour since 92. Lost this time. A good local MP booted out.


    2019 17607 (Chapman)
    2017 22681
    2015 17637
    2010 16891
    2005 20643 ( Millburn)
    2001 22479
    1997 29658
    1992 26556

    Millburn after 1992 always had 10k plus majorities. Chapman never had big majorities but all were around the 3800 mark.

    PS a Darlo fan?

    Some of the wording in that article is a bit lacking in "comradely good spirit" but the central point is spot on.
     
    Last edited: 18 Dec 2019
  17. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Being on the right of the Labour Party doesn’t make you right wing.
     
  18. Arglwydd Golau

    Arglwydd Golau Established Member

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    Didn't mean that....it is possible to be 'on' the right wing of the Labour Party....I understand that doesn't make you Mark Francois!
     
  19. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    They can't simply write Scotland off. They had 7 seats in 2017. I don't know how they come back from that... Pro-Union anti Tory? Never back to the days of the feeble 50 but even getting a dozen or so means the ask South of the Border is easier.

    Places like Darlo and Bishop are not Tory towns despite the former having a Tory MP from 1983-92. They should be Labour and have lost two good constituency MPs. What really got me was NW Durham - I mean, places like Consett, Tow Law and Crook having a Tory MP (though the loss of Laura Pidcock isn't one to sadden most people). It's unthinkable and the apologists say it was all to do with Brexit.... Akehurst may be very direct but he's right. When Labour lose in places like Consett or Redcar, it's clear there's a fundamental problem and merely changing the figurehead just will not do. Some of the red wall might come back next time but that is just welcoming complacency. Labour have to win those back (no easy job) but then begin to erode the places that in 2010 flipped - they are a country mile off that and more.

    And yes, I've been to Wembley three times ;)
     
  20. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Why not? The SNP are most unlikely to vote with the Tories so all that counts is the Labour + Lib Dem + SNP total. Having three or more parties in a FPTP election is very silly and helps split the anti-Tory vote. Scotland has four!
     
  21. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    Why is life all about splitting the Tory vote? Some are quite happy that the (current incarnation of) Labour vote is being split.
     
  22. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    If we had a fair voting system there would be no need to worry about splitting votes.
     
  23. Ferret

    Ferret Established Member

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    May as well end the thread now; it seems it has already been decreed by the Politburo that Rebecca Wrong-Daily is to be the new Dear Leader.

    Those howls of laughter you can hear are coming from inside Tory Head Office...
     
  24. Senex

    Senex Established Member

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    Presumably Rebecca Wrong-Daily subscribes wholly to the Corbyn doctrine that he and the manifesto were both fine and it was Brexit that did for them. There was an interview on BBC Today this morning with Claudia Webbe, the Corbynista new member for Leicester East, where she was asked about her claim to the meeting of MPs on Tuesday evening that the manifesto was popular (BBC Sounds, R4 19.xij.2019, c.06:55). Despite being pressed hard, she absolutely refused to answer the question of what her evidence for that assertion was, insisting instead of telling the interviewer what an excellent manifesto it was for answering all the social problems of the day. If the Corbynist wing really don't see that last Thursday wasn't just about Brexit, then what hope is there for a new leader from that side of the party with any hope of mounting sensible, sustained, and hard-hitting opposition to the Johnson government for the next five years?
     
  25. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Listening to Johnny Reynolds MP on Radio 5 this morning. He was direct in saying that whilst there were individual policies in the manifesto that were popular, it wasn't as a whole and that no-one can look at the worst result since 1935 and say it was anything other than a disaster. Also that they couldn't blame the electorate in any way.

    TBF, he came across very well. Not an MP I've really heard/seen but came across well.

    If the line "we may not have won the election but we won the argument" is allowed to persist, Labour won't move on. They have to realise that losing the fourth consecutive election and receiving a drubbing isn't winning anything! The delusion of moral superiority "we have the right principles" needs to be skewered. Labour lost, lost heavily, and that whilst Brexit was an issue, the manifesto wasn't strong (despite some good popular policies) and the leader was atrocious.
     
  26. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    agreed. I fear they wont move away from that narrative
     
  27. Comstock

    Comstock Member

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    You can sing her name to the same tune as 'oooh Jeremy Cor-byn" so all is not lost.
     
  28. bussnapperwm

    bussnapperwm Member

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    Oooh Becky Long-Bailey

    I can just hear it now
     
  29. Senex

    Senex Established Member

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    More Cult of Personality then?
     
  30. Comstock

    Comstock Member

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    I fear so :(
     
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