Nexus Metro Newcastle - provided false name stupidly

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Smithy9203

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Hey all,


Provided a false name when checked by the inspector today......, admitted when i was caught out (he did a name address check) and the inspector says i'll hear from their legal team....now i am scared of being prosecuted. This is my first offence and was done in a stupid moment of madness....a crimninal record will impact my future career plans i.e i am legally qualified cwhich i would say the consequence of my stupidity on the career, goes without saying......

More stupidly - the name and address i provided were the same as those provided a year ago when my mate did it (though they did not check uip at the time)....so they think i have done this twice and theres a prosecution already out there on the other one......

What can i do to avoid prosecution in court?
I dont think they will believe that i wasnt the person who used these details last time, but surely they can only prove this time round, as they now have my correct details, (once i had been caught out) And that last year, they cant pin on me as no ID check was done at that time.

Any comments appreciated, worried sick. Thanks all.
 
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trc666

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I highly doubt you'll be able to avoid prosecution as the intent is there due to the fact you gave a false name when you were caught. Don't give revenue protection staff false details - you WILL get found out.
 

ainsworth74

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I think you have good reason to be worried TOCs (and I'd therefore assume also Nexus) take a very very dim view of people that give false details. It will not matter to them that you only did it in a moment of madness (though why on earth anyone would think that it's ever sensible to do that is beyond me) they will see at as a blatant attempt to fare evade and will therefore in all likelihood try and take this as far as they can.

However before further advice can be given I feel we need to know exactly why you were stopped by the inspector and as best you can what was said by yourself and the inspector.
 

yorkie

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Smithy9203 - As ainsworth74 says, we would need more information to be able to assist you. I suspect, however, you may be reluctant to provide this information on an open forum, in which case you may wish to seek legal advice. It can be very expensive to receive good legal advice from solicitors who are experienced in railway ticketing matters.

There are many threads on this forum that will offer you with some information, if you search for them. I would pay particular attention to the posts by DaveNewcastle.

In particular I recommend reading this post and this thread. I suspect, in fact, many questions you have for us may be already answered.

To people responding: if someone asks for advice and you do not wish to provide any useful information, then please do not post. Thank you.
 
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Smithy9203

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The exact conversation is a bit vague, but I was stopped routinely. The inspector was calm and clearly established i was lying and then i offered to tell him my true credentials, which i did. This was after he ran a name check and discovered the previous offence committed by the same name (the false name). He wrote down my details and said I would hear from the legal department, who could prosecute. I guess i ran the risk of hoping that he wouldn't check it out, like the inspector didn't do the previous time to my friend. All in all, pathetic.

What would typical;ly be the next time, and what is the general time frame receiving the first letter from them, and would this contain the summons if they are to prosecute? or before or this, do they allow for me to respond, before court gets put into motion?

If it goes to court, Im obviously going to plead guilty, would the outcome be worse if i didnt attend court and posted the guilty plea?

Is there any chance that Nexus will see that my career will be in grave danger, that im deeply sorry and know how stupid i was, and i am willing to accept whatever penalty and costs.....i have previous good character too.....

thanks all
 

yorkie

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What would typical;ly be the next time, and what is the general time frame receiving the first letter from them
I'm not sure if anyone here will be able to answer that, it may vary by company and by how busy they are.
and would this contain the summons if they are to prosecute? or before or this, do they allow for me to respond, before court gets put into motion?
As you may have seen from other threads, the likely first contact, based on what others have reported, should be a "Notice of intention to prosecute", this should state the offence(s) they intend to prosecute for, and they may be asking you for a statement to provide your version of events. If so, see this (but bear in mind this applies to a different scenario, and for a potentially much lesser offence than what you may be prosecuted for).

If it goes to court, Im obviously going to plead guilty, would the outcome be worse if i didnt attend court and posted the guilty plea?
My advice would be, as you will have seen in other threads, to settle out of court, if at all possible.
Is there any chance that Nexus will see that my career will be in grave danger, that im deeply sorry and know how stupid i was, and i am willing to accept whatever penalty and costs.....i have previous good character too.....

thanks all
If you are asking if there is any chance that they will settle out of court, then I do not know Nexus' policy in this regard.

However, as you will have seen from previous threads, several people who have asked for advice here have gone on to successfully settle out of court, after making a sincere apology and suitable offer to the Company (I'm not going to give amounts here, but obviously 3 figures), as appropriate to reflect the seriousness of the matter in addition to the fare due.
 

GadgetMan

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Hey all,


Provided a false name when checked by the inspector today......, admitted when i was caught out (he did a name address check) and the inspector says i'll hear from their legal team....now i am scared of being prosecuted. This is my first offence and was done in a stupid moment of madness....a crimninal record will impact my future career plans i.e i am legally qualified cwhich i would say the consequence of my stupidity on the career, goes without saying......

More stupidly - the name and address i provided were the same as those provided a year ago when my mate did it (though they did not check uip at the time)....so they think i have done this twice and theres a prosecution already out there on the other one......

What can i do to avoid prosecution in court?
I dont think they will believe that i wasnt the person who used these details last time, but surely they can only prove this time round, as they now have my correct details, (once i had been caught out) And that last year, they cant pin on me as no ID check was done at that time.

Any comments appreciated, worried sick. Thanks all.
From reading the above, a couple of obvious questions spring to mind. I am only mentioning this as the prosecution department is likely to consider the same thing.

Firstly are these false details actually a real identity of someone else? If they are then this could also be a more serious case of identity theft which BTP (or civil police) may be interested in.

If they are not and 'your friend' made them up when tugged last year, then unless you use these false details on a regular basis why would you remember them? I have a very good memory, yet if I was to make up a false name and address today, there is no way I would then be able to provide the exact false details again a number of months down the line. You cannot blame the prosecution department if they go down the line of assuming you were the same person who was detected for the travel irregularity last year. What are the chances of 2 random passengers using exactly the same false details months apart.
You also need to consider whether you'd be willing to shop this mate, or get him to take responsibility should the need arise. Otherwise you may find yourself taking the rap for the previous offence too.


Secondly, as a warning to others and information for you. Just because the details are not checked at the time does not mean they do not get checked at all. I sometimes take details from a passenger but do not have the time to verify them. However, later on in the day when I have some spare time, I will ring Ircas and verify the details. If we find inconsistencies, then we can ask the operator to add relevant notes to the system for the false details.

For example, a description of the passenger, the journey they regularly make, their behavior if it was abusive or threatening, and the nature of the travel irregularity. The next time a passenger is detected and provides those details, the ticket inspector will have the previously stored info passed onto them by Ircas when they ring up to check.


As to when you are likely to here from them. This can vary greatly. The first delay will depend on how quickly the report is made and submitted. With RPI's they are usually rostered certain days on a regular basis to complete reports collected over the previous days. However with guards, we have to do them in our own time and book it as overtime. In my case, I sometimes get them done on the same day, other times up to 3 weeks later.

Once the report reaches the Revenue protection department, they need time to read the report and consider how they wish to go forward. depending on their caseload, it could be days before they read it. I don't know what TOC you were on, but on ours we usually advise the passenger that they will be contacted in around 3 - 5 weeks time (which I appreciate may not be helpful to you).
 

SussexMan

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....so they think i have done this twice and theres a prosecution already out there on the other one......
I guess i ran the risk of hoping that he wouldn't check it out, like the inspector didn't do the previous time to my friend..
In the first quote you say there is a prosecution linked to the first time the false details were used, but then you seem to say there wasn't. Can you explain what you mean?
 
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island

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can inspectors check addresses in Irısh Republıc?
Very doubtful they can do it to the same extent (i.e. verifying the address exists, checking the electoral roll). Most they could probably do is check whether that address had been given to an employee of that TOC in the past.
 

Fare-Cop

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My job does include making decisions as to whether to prosecute these type of offences or not and following them through to prosecution (not for Nexus I hasten to add). Obviously I will not comment on individual cases that I may recognise on here from time to time, but will try to help with general process guidance if that is of any use.

From reading through this thread, I have no doubt that referral for issue of a Summons is most likely.

Firstly, in answer to your question regarding time frames, there is a generally accepted practice across the industry whereby a person who has been reported will receive a 'verification' letter. Typically this will be within 4 to 6 weeks of the incident, dependent on which company the report concerns and how busy that particular processing office is at the time. Gadgetman has already identified reasons that can create delay, but the letter will refer to the basis of the allegation and will provide a case reference identifier and allow opportunity for you to respond giving your version of events and any explanation.

The prosecution office staff will review the file in light of your explanation and may require further clarification of any point that is not immediately clear on either side. If it is decided that the matter is to proceed they will notify the person reported and apply for a Summons to the relevent Magistrates Court.

In a case where any traveller did not hold a valid ticket for their journey and provided false particulars when asked by rail staff there will normally be two charges:

1) 'did fail to previously pay the fare due with intent to avoid payment thereof' contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)
2) 'did provide false details when asked for his name and address by rail staff' contrary to Section 5.3.c of the same Act.

If convicted by a Court the second charge is normally considered to be an aggravating factor and will result in a more onerous penalty.


Once you receive the letter you will be able to correctly identify the reference allocated to your case. Write promptly. I can never stress enough how important it is to put your response in writing and sign & date it. I know all about the simplicity and ease of communication by email & telephone, but both of these are open to difficulty. Word of mouth is often subject to misinterpretation that may be hard to resolve and in the case of email, can be manipulated. It is always best to respond in writing.

When you get the letter, write an apology to the company & staff concerned. Stress that conviction would have a devestating effect on your future career and that you acted on impulse without thinking of the likely outcome. Ask if the case can be disposed of by alternative to Court action and offer to pay all of the companys' reasonably incurred costs plus any outstanding fares immediately. Give a written undertaking not to repeat the offence.

They are not obliged to agree, but will give it serious consideration.

If the company still decide to proceed, the process moves to issue of a Summons & Court hearing.

The penalty for conviction of a first offence is a fine up to a maximum of £1000. The usual guidance to Magistrates is that this is a 'Band B' matter and if a first time offender the entry level for fine will be around £350 on each charge. (Entry level is considered to be equal to the currently estimated average weekly wage)

If pleading guilty at the first opportunity, the Magistrates will give credit for an early guilty plea and reduce the fine/s accordingly. (Usually a third off.)

I'll leave it at that point, but if you have any other query I'll try to help with explanation.
 

142094

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One thing worth pointing out is that it will not be Nexus who are dealing with this, it will be DB Regio Tyne and Wear Ltd, who operate the concession.

Secondly, I'm assuming that you were stopped for not having a ticket? Which stations were you travelling to and from? It would have been much better to just have paid the £20 penalty fare there and then and not provide false details. In a situation like that, where they now know you have provided false details, they will be more likely to take this further. They will no doubt not be interested in what effect it will have on your career as you have put yourself in this situation.

Also note that there are some separate by-laws that apply to the Tyne and Wear Metro which could be slightly different to some of the normal laws that apply to the railways.
 

Fare-Cop

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In a situation like that, where they now know you have provided false details, they will be more likely to take this further. They will no doubt not be interested in what effect it will have on your career as you have put yourself in this situation.
Yes, there are other Byelaws, just as there are on the National Rail Network, but RRA (1889) does apply to Tyne & Wear Metro. Home Office guidelines to CPS and to Private Prosecutors alike, make clear the relevant legislations for dealing with these matters.

These guidelines also make clear the Prosecutors' need to consider the effect of prosecution in relation to first time offenders, the level of offending and the relevant public interest factors.
 

DaveNewcastle

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I've been unwilling to respond to this enquiry in the hope that we might have an answer to this question:
. . . . are these false details actually a real identity of someone else? If they are then this could also be a more serious case . . . .
In the absence of clarity about this, I am not going to guess what might be the most appropriate course of action but instead, and fearing the worst, I'm going to advise speaking with the local Criminal Law Firm, David Gray & Co on Westgate Road.
 

GadgetMan

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can inspectors check addresses in Irısh Republıc?
No, but we can ask the passenger for ID that may confirm their details. However we can't make them hand anything over. From my experience most genuine passengers will volunteer a driving license or something similar.

If the passenger is unable to provide proof of the details provided and we have reason to suspect they may be false, then BTP are always happy to assist.


A thing to note is. Travel irregularity reports (TIR) are not just there for reporting passengers who may be in the wrong. They are also used for reporting ticket issuing errors/printing errors and other general errors in the ticketing system. However for investigation purposes, the ticket would need to be withdrawn and passenger details taken so the TOCs revenue department can contact the passenger should the need arise.
 

Smithy9203

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Hi, thanks for the further advice.

The name provided was of someone I have known however the date of birth and address were not linked to this person as I do not know his details.
 

142094

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I'd get in touch with a solicitor like DaveNewcastle has suggested, as this could turn out much worse than an out of court settlement.
 
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