NFC Ticketing

[Jordeh]

For my final year project at university I'm looking into attitudes towards future train ticket types on the UK rail network, in particular NFC ticketing.

If you could support me by completing my questionnaire below, I would really appreciate it as I value the input from rail users and enthusiasts (and need lots of responses!).

https://lboro.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/consumer-attitudes-to-nfc-ticketing

Thanks for your time!



For a bit of background and discussion too
The DfT wants all TOCs by the end of 2018 to offer "smart ticketing" options which will mainly consist of smartcards and/or barcodes on Apps.

The current barrier to NFC ticketing is mainly Apple restricting third-party developers to access it. However there is some small hope as they did allow JR East's 'Suica' pass to access the NFC chip from last September.

There's also this beautiful video by Wizway (a collaboration between SNCF, RATP, Orange and Gemalto) which shows a future with NFC and integrated ticketing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdS4ybiP1sk

I'm also happy to share my findings with anyone afterwards, if that's something you would appreciate, please message me. I'd also appreciate any help with distribution if possible!

 

[GatwickDepress]

I've completed the survery, but for Question 11 my biggest issue with mobile ticketing isn't on there: the erosion of passenger rights that some TOCs feel aren't guaranteed when using mobile or e-tickets.

 

[Jordeh]

I've completed the survery, but for Question 11 my biggest issue with mobile ticketing isn't on there: the erosion of passenger rights that some TOCs feel aren't guaranteed when using mobile or e-tickets.

Thanks for completing it. Apologies that is an oversight on my behalf, you make an important point.

 

[SS4]

Completed. I share GatwickDepress's concerns re passenger rights and ideally it's a question that should be asked.

I also found the last question about personality to be unusually out of place

 

[ECML180]

Completed! Hope you're getting good responses.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Completed. I share GatwickDepress's concerns re passenger rights and ideally it's a question that should be asked.

I also found the last question about personality to be unusually out of place

Yes, I declined to answer that as I felt it too personal for a survey.

FWIW one thing I felt was missing was the issue of batteries running out, which is a major dissuading factor for mobile ticketing use. I'm far more in favour of true e-ticketing, for which NFC could play a part, but the principle is of the ticket being in a database and it being media-agnostic as to how you actually use it. (For example, battery run out? Log in with your username and password at a ticket machine and print a physical barcoded ticket instead)

 

[D365]

FWIW one thing I felt was missing was the issue of batteries running out, which is a major dissuading factor for mobile ticketing use. I'm far more in favour of true e-ticketing, for which NFC could play a part, but the principle is of the ticket being in a database and it being media-agnostic as to how you actually use it. (For example, battery run out? Log in with your username and password at a ticket machine and print a physical barcoded ticket instead)

As I'm about to purchase a phone that includes NFC functionality for the first time, this is one thing that's making me hesitant about downloading all my tickets to the "Passbook" app. Sure, I do own a portable charger, but I'd still rather be bound to a physical piece of paper than what is still fragile technology.

One wonders whether passengers will attempt to play a "battery out of charge" trick in the future as an attempt to not purchase any actual tickets. Though this could be migrated somewhat with the proliferation of charging points onboard a train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that there are basically two standards of smartphone charger (Apple and all others) a charging brick and pair of cables would be a sensible addition to any guard or RPI's bag when working a train with sockets. Or indeed a battery pack!

 

[zuriblue]

As I'm about to purchase a phone that includes NFC functionality for the first time, this is one thing that's making me hesitant about downloading all my tickets to the "Passbook" app. Sure, I do own a portable charger, but I'd still rather be bound to a physical piece of paper than what is still fragile technology.

One wonders whether passengers will attempt to play a "battery out of charge" trick in the future as an attempt to not purchase any actual tickets. Though this could be migrated somewhat with the proliferation of charging points onboard a train.

In Switzerland they've had mobile ticketing for a while and the rules are simple - flat battery = penalty fare. Since the penalty fare here is around £80 (100 SFR) it is a good idea to carry a charging brick.

 

[D365]

Though one would have to bear in mind that phones can take several minutes to boot up from cold...

In Switzerland they've had mobile ticketing for a while and the rules are simple - flat battery = penalty fare. Since the penalty fare here is around £80 (100 SFR) it is a good idea to carry a charging brick.

Fair enough. Perhaps when e-tickets become more popular here, reminders could be made using the PA that your device must be switched on and charged in order for the guard or ticket inspector to scan it as they come along.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Switzerland they've had mobile ticketing for a while and the rules are simple - flat battery = penalty fare. Since the penalty fare here is around £80 (100 SFR) it is a good idea to carry a charging brick.

SBB are notoriously strict. They even don't allow the scenario of running for the train, boarding then activating a mobile ticket then - you *have* to do it before the time of departure, and that is checked when checking it. (To handle delays, which despite peoples' impression do frequently occur, I assume the guard on IC(N)/IR or any inspector manually sets that time based on actual departure).

I know that avoids people activating only if caught, but you could give, say, a 5 minute leeway on most journeys without significantly increasing fare dodging, and that would allow last-minute boarding and activation.

Talking of the Penalty Fare, though, if it was just an £80 PF then that's it[1] that would be borderline acceptable, I just await someone being prosecuted under RoRA for it, which would be serious overkill.

[1] I know that's not *totally* it, as you can I believe only pay £80 once, it goes up on a second offence and I think further on a third.

 

[jon0844]

Few people could live with a flat battery on their phone these days, so either carry a power supply (or at least a USB lead) or power bank.

A mobile is probably the one thing people value most in their lives these days, so I'm sure the battery issue isn't really going to be an issue for many.

 

[D365]

Fair enough, I was just considering that some might try to pull that stunt.

Despite the fact that I am shortly to be upgrading my phone, I use it least out of all my devices. But I've found a limited offer on a 64GB model that I want to get before I'm forced to plump for a more costly 128GB. It'll be great to pack some more music on it.

 

[bspahh]

A mobile is probably the one thing people value most in their lives these days, so I'm sure the battery issue isn't really going to be an issue for many.

A lot of train tickets are used. A problem might be very rare, and it will still happen a lot of times.

The one time I checked in for a flight when I only had an electronic boarding pass, I dropped my phone, the battery fell out and it took 5 minutes to get it turned back on. Luckily this was just after I had shown the boarding pass.

 

[D365]

... I dropped my phone, the battery fell out and it took 5 minutes to get it turned back on. Luckily this was just after I had shown the boarding pass.

Hardly a problem anymore

 

[SS4]

Additionally would this payment type be available on modified (i.e. rooted) phones? Android Pay certainly isn't along with other apps (like Now TV) so you'd be asking (with price incentives) or forcing (no other options) people to not modify their property as they see fit. I certainly don't think it farfetched that rooted phones would be barred from using NFC tickets.

Also of course there is the perfectly reasonable step of queues forming as people turn on their NFC at barriers or when the inspector turns up.

Furthermore there is also the privacy angle - what information is collected with NFC tickets? Currently you can go into a station, (relatively) anonymously, pay with cash and be on your way. CCTV, although common, is fairly well regulated but by and large the law hasn't caught up with new technologies.

NFC on the other hand is using a mobile device with a unique IMEI and a MAC address (not sure how easy it is to spoof on mobiles). Add into that a lot of information is stored on a phone - passwords if stored in a browser, device model, version, modifications, and, most obviously, both your and your contacts names and numbers. This information can be used to build a unique personal profile for each user. In turn this may be used for data mining to be sold off (likely a tick box when registering), for targeted advertising (in the T&Cs) as well as analysing the tickets used (in the T&Cs). For that last one perhaps you are the kind of person who takes advantages of loopholes in the routeing guide - your journeys can be monitored more carefully and you may even end up a targeted by staff. Of course this profile/account should also be able to determine any valid tickets you do have but I wonder if, for whatever reason, it'll be used when the passenger is unable to use their phone to verify a valid ticket...


In short an NFC Ticketing system would have to provably show that it's not data mining more than it needs to function - at least not without strict opt ins (definitely not opt-out!)

 

[jon0844]

A lot of train tickets are used. A problem might be very rare, and it will still happen a lot of times.

The one time I checked in for a flight when I only had an electronic boarding pass, I dropped my phone, the battery fell out and it took 5 minutes to get it turned back on. Luckily this was just after I had shown the boarding pass.

Damaging or losing a phone would certainly be a problem. Especially if a ticket couldn't be transferred, effectively being lost.

That actually needs to be addressed by having a system to securely log in on another device and kill the other ticket. This might then require an Internet connection to be live to validate a ticket, which introduces new issues. 4G can solve many coverage issues, but 5G is what will one day give near 100% coverage (as against 95% geographic on EE by 2020).

 

[me123]

The one time I checked in for a flight when I only had an electronic boarding pass, I dropped my phone, the battery fell out and it took 5 minutes to get it turned back on. Luckily this was just after I had shown the boarding pass.

About a year ago, I was at Edinburgh Airport and a security officer dropped my phone, damaging it beyond repair. Unfortunately, my boarding pass was on the phone so when I cleared security I had no boarding pass.

Thankfully, in an airport environment, there is an answer to this. We are generally required to carry identification to fly (usually in the form of a passport, but for domestic travel other identification can be used if accepted by the airline). So I only had to prove my identity at the BA counter and they were able to (re?-)print my boarding passes for me.

Sadly, this wouldn't work on the railways. There's no mechanism to allow passengers to do this - there's no requirement to carry identification with the more open nature of ticketing in general it would be unwise and impractical for TOCs to allow a ticket to be displayed on multiple devices.

However, I'd imagine that having issues like this is generally very uncommon. I don't break my phone every day; I generally try to take good care of it because it costs several hundred of my hard-earned pounds and I have lots of things on my phone that are valuable to me over and above the ticket (contacts, e-mails, a logbook, a diary...).

You can break and/or lose your phone. You can equally lose your paper ticket - and if you do so you're in just as bad a position as the man with a broken phone. People must have dropped their ticket into the gap before, or left it on the train, or accidentally binned it (I'm sure a quick browse through "Disputes & Prosecutions will return quite a few examples of this!). So I think it's erroneous to say that the issues with mobile ticketing relating to lost and damaged phones do not have parallels with paper tickets.

 

[DarloRich]

i have done the survey but have no idea what NFC Ticketing is or what it does

 

[Puffing Devil]

Two issues:

1) Battery or phone failure
2) Multiple Tickets - how to select which one to use?

 

[me123]

Two issues:

1) Battery or phone failure

... which is analogous to losing or damaging your paper ticket.

2) Multiple Tickets - how to select which one to use?

Again, not sure how this is any different to physical paper tickets. If I carry a dozen paper tickets, how is it any less difficult to select the correct ticket than it is on a mobile phone? Both have visual displays. The phone has the potential (if not necessarily realised) advantage of being able to hold more information than a single sided credit card ticket.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Thanks for completing it. Apologies that is an oversight on my behalf, you make an important point.

Thanks. Future advancements in ticketing is an interesting topic. Best of luck with your project.

Two issues:
2) Multiple Tickets - how to select which one to use?

It's not too hard to have multiple tickets in an app. Arriva do it fairly well.

 

[Puffing Devil]

... which is analogous to losing or damaging your paper ticket.



Again, not sure how this is any different to physical paper tickets. If I carry a dozen paper tickets, how is it any less difficult to select the correct ticket than it is on a mobile phone? Both have visual displays. The phone has the potential (if not necessarily realised) advantage of being able to hold more information than a single sided credit card ticket.

Thanks. Future advancements in ticketing is an interesting topic. Best of luck with your project.


It's not too hard to have multiple tickets in an app. Arriva do it fairly well.

I've never had an orange ticket fail to load, crash or simply stop working. They don't need any power to work (once issued). I can accept Facebrag not working - more on an inconvenience to have no train ticket.

Both are phone and tickets can be lost - only phones need a battery to work.

Looks like Arriva may have cracked the multiple ticket thing.