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RJ

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New fares round has gone in now!

The only change I've noticed is EMT changing the restriction on some of their tickets - couldn't possibly think why they would do that!
 
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barrykas

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Chiltern's Super Off-Peaks are going up by £2.50, which removes the apparent anomaly of tickets from London to Bicester North being more expensive than those to Banbury and beyond, even though they're different ticket types.
 

RJ

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Going up again? There was already a steep price rise a few months before the Mainline came into operation - do they want to hand over their London - Brum budget travel market share to LM or something?
 

yorkie

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This is the problem with anomalies and lenient restriction codes. TOCs see it as the lower fare should be increased (it does not matter if the anomaly is caused by the higher fares being, in our view, too high - the TOCs rarely share that view) and they do not see the ridiculously harsh restriction codes as the cause of the anomalies either, they think the lenient ones should be made harsher.

Any anomalies posted publicly are liable to have the fare increased, routeing changed, restriction code changed etc....
 

barrykas

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Going up again? There was already a steep price rise a few months before the Mainline came into operation - do they want to hand over their London - Brum budget travel market share to LM or something?

LM are putting theirs up as well...to £21.00 for London to Birmingham.

And the LM ones are much more heavily restricted than Chiltern's, not being valid Northbound before 10:30, nor valid on trains scheduled to arrive into London before 13:00, nor on trains in either direction scheduled to depart between 16:30 and 19:30 (except the 18:29 Euston to Crewe and 18:33 Crewe to Northampton).

Chiltern's restrictions, meanwhile, are that tickets aren't valid on Northbound services scheduled to leave Marylebone between 16:00 and 18:42 (16:00 to 19:00 from Paddington), nor on Southbound services scheduled to arrive into London before 11:30.

And, of course, LM's fastest off-peak trains take around 20 minutes longer than Chiltern's...

Cheers,

Barry
 

Solent&Wessex

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I also note there will be some changes to Railcards, including a clarification on the minimum fare time restrictions for 16-25 and HM Forces Railcards, an increase in the Railcard replacement fee from £5 to £10 for 16-25, Family & Friends, Network and Senior Railcards and a change to the evidence required for mature students applying for the 16-25 Railcard.
 

RJ

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LM are putting theirs up as well...to £21.00 for London to Birmingham.

And the LM ones are much more heavily restricted than Chiltern's, not being valid Northbound before 10:30, nor valid on trains scheduled to arrive into London before 13:00, nor on trains in either direction scheduled to depart between 16:30 and 19:30 (except the 18:29 Euston to Crewe and 18:33 Crewe to Northampton).

Chiltern's restrictions, meanwhile, are that tickets aren't valid on Northbound services scheduled to leave Marylebone between 16:00 and 18:42 (16:00 to 19:00 from Paddington), nor on Southbound services scheduled to arrive into London before 11:30.

And, of course, LM's fastest off-peak trains take around 20 minutes longer than Chiltern's...

Cheers,

Barry

Ah, there is no denying the delights and advantages of travelling with Chiltern, but for the die hard bargain hunter, LM's cheap and cheerful offering seems to suffice. £21 against £27.50! London Midland's SVRs at £27 have rather benign restrictions on them too.
 

barrykas

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Ah, there is no denying the delights and advantages of travelling with Chiltern, but for the die hard bargain hunter, LM's cheap and cheerful offering seems to suffice. £21 against £27.50! London Midland's SVRs at £27 have rather benign restrictions on them too.

Indubitably...But given the choice between 2 hours on a 350 (or 321) and 1 hour 40 on a Mark 3 or 168, I know which I'd choose... ;) But then London to Birmingham is one of the corridors on which there's healthy on rail competition between three main operators, namely Virgin, LM and Chiltern, and plenty of passengers to go around.
 

Jay

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New fares round has gone in now!

The only change I've noticed is EMT changing the restriction on some of their tickets - couldn't possibly think why they would do that!

Could you let me know what EMT ticket restrictions have changed?
 

calc7

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Ah, there is no denying the delights and advantages of travelling with Chiltern, but for the die hard bargain hunter, LM's cheap and cheerful offering seems to suffice. £21 against £27.50! London Midland's SVRs at £27 have rather benign restrictions on them too.

For the cost of a frothy coffee each way (less for railcard holders) I can imagine Chiltern's offer still swaying many on the margin.
 

Mike395

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....and a change to the evidence required for mature students applying for the 16-25 Railcard.

Do you have any specifics on this? Got a friend who is a mature student and uses his ISIC card to verify this - would be interested to know if this can still be done. :)
 

barrykas

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Do you have any specifics on this? Got a friend who is a mature student and uses his ISIC card to verify this - would be interested to know if this can still be done. :)

It doesn't say...It also doesn't say what's meant by "clarification" on the minimum fares for Y-P and Forces Railcards. Is it really that difficult to comprehend that a minimum applies before 10am Monday to Friday, except in July and August?
 

Greeby

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Major change round my way is that 9I/2C SVR will have the evening peak at MKC removed.
 

323235

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Barrykas said:
It doesn't say...It also doesn't say what's meant by "clarification" on the minimum fares for Y-P and Forces Railcards. Is it really that difficult to comprehend that a minimum applies before 10am Monday to Friday, except in July and August?

No I think it is the concept of how it is applied in practice that baffles some staff. My local ticket office will not issue tickets at the £12 minimum fare, they think the ticket has to be £12 or over when fully discounted to buy it with a railcard. they also will not sell CDR's to 16-25 railcard holders before 1000 even if they conform to the rule.
 

barrykas

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Can you expand on that?

Restriction text for Milton Keynes (Northbound) changes from "You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART Before 04:30 and between 09:51 & 15:14 (inclusive) and at or after 19:14" to "You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART Before 04:30 and at or after 09:51"

A similar change applies to Bedford, which changes from "You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART Between 09:01 & 16:29 (inclusive) and at or after 18:59" to "You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART Before 04:30 and at or after 09:01"
 

Paul Kelly

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It was pointed out on this forum a few months ago that Virgin were violating fares regulation by having evening peak restrictions on off-peak returns from Milton Keynes; on the West Coast Mainline such they are only supposed to be allowed from stations between London and Watford Junction inclusive. Nice to see this being fixed. I wonder if Virgin will get penalised in any way for having broken the rules for so long.
 

leyscjd

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Also noteworthy that East Coast have done away with the cheapest band of advances-eg London-Newcastle cheapest was £12 if booked on their website, now £15. Scandalous considering how empty some of their off-peak trains are.
 

All Line Rover

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It was pointed out on this forum a few months ago that Virgin were violating fares regulation by having evening peak restrictions on off-peak returns from Milton Keynes; on the West Coast Mainline such they are only supposed to be allowed from stations between London and Watford Junction inclusive. Nice to see this being fixed. I wonder if Virgin will get penalised in any way for having broken the rules for so long.

Would you be able to direct me to that thread? This is excellent and most surprising news. :) To be honest, having an evening restriction from Milton Keynes doesn't seem at all unreasonable considering the number of VT services that stop there, as it prevents people getting around the evening restrictions from London Euston. But from a passenger's perspective, this is excellent news. :)

I may be being cynical, but doesn't it seem odd that VT are doing this just before the franchise is up for renewal? The restrictions have been the way they are ever since they were tightened around 3 years ago. That seems an awfully long time to realise that something is illegal!
 
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GadgetMan

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Do you have any specifics on this? Got a friend who is a mature student and uses his ISIC card to verify this - would be interested to know if this can still be done. :)

16-25 Railcard eligibility criteria for mature students

ISIC cards will no longer be accepted as proof of eligibility and instead ALL mature student applicants are required to have the mature student section of the application form completed and validated by their college or university. Administration staff members are now able to complete the form as well as tutors, head tutors and heads of departments. The form has been extended to require the endorsor’s name, job title, and telephone number.





It doesn't say...It also doesn't say what's meant by "clarification" on the minimum fares for Y-P and Forces Railcards. Is it really that difficult to comprehend that a minimum applies before 10am Monday to Friday, except in July and August?


This restriction will be clarified, with the minimum fare applying for journeys starting between 4.30am and 10am Monday to Friday.
 

Paul Kelly

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This restriction will be clarified, with the minimum fare applying for journeys starting between 4.30am and 10am Monday to Friday.

That sounds like more than a clarification - actually a relaxation - good news for people travelling in the early hours of the morning for two reasons:

1. Currently the minimum fare also applies between midnight and 04:30 - although you can get around this by using a ticket dated the previous day, but (a) you must remember to buy it before midnight, and (b) all travel must be completed by 04:30.

2. The current conditions apply the minimum fare to any journey that involves travelling during the barred timeframe. If the new conditions are changed to only bar journeys that *start* within the barred timeframe, that opens up some nice possibilities for railcard usage on journeys that span the 04:30 horizon.

For example, suppose a 16-25 Railcard holder wishes to make an early morning single journey from Maidenhead to London Paddington, departing on the 04:08 service arriving into Paddington at 04:47. As this journey spans the 04:30 horizon they need to buy a ticket dated the current day. The Off-Peak Single is not valid so the only option is the Anytime Single, priced at £11. Under the old rules, the minimum fare (£12) applies to this journey and as the undiscounted fare is cheaper, there is no point in using the railcard for this journey.

Under the new rules, because the journey starts within a period when the minimum fare doesn't apply (even though it continues into a period when it does), it is valid to use a railcard-discounted anytime single at £7.25 - a nice saving of £3.75 afforded by the "clarification" of the rules!
 

GadgetMan

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That sounds like more than a clarification - actually a relaxation - good news for people travelling in the early hours of the morning for two reasons:

1. Currently the minimum fare also applies between midnight and 04:30 - although you can get around this by using a ticket dated the previous day, but (a) you must remember to buy it before midnight, and (b) all travel must be completed by 04:30.

2. The current conditions apply the minimum fare to any journey that involves travelling during the barred timeframe. If the new conditions are changed to only bar journeys that *start* within the barred timeframe, that opens up some nice possibilities for railcard usage on journeys that span the 04:30 horizon.

For example, suppose a 16-25 Railcard holder wishes to make an early morning single journey from Maidenhead to London Paddington, departing on the 04:08 service arriving into Paddington at 04:47. As this journey spans the 04:30 horizon they need to buy a ticket dated the current day. The Off-Peak Single is not valid so the only option is the Anytime Single, priced at £11. Under the old rules, the minimum fare (£12) applies to this journey and as the undiscounted fare is cheaper, there is no point in using the railcard for this journey.

Under the new rules, because the journey starts within a period when the minimum fare doesn't apply (even though it continues into a period when it does), it is valid to use a railcard-discounted anytime single at £7.25 - a nice saving of £3.75 afforded by the "clarification" of the rules!


I should have added the note below to my post, but will do now;

This is what has been briefed internally by my TOC, other than that I have not seen anything official from ATOC to support my post. Assuming the person who does our Brief hasn't misunderstood anything then I have no doubt about its accuracy. But we should still wait to see the official publication.
 

Paul Kelly

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Time to revisit this (I seem to remember it was changed to come in with NFM14 rather than NFM13 in the end). National Rail Enquiries now says for 16-25 and Forces Railcards:
NRE said:
Please note that a £12 minimum fare for Single and Return tickets applies between 04:30 and 09:59 Monday to Friday except on Public Holidays or during July and August.
I interpret that as all journeys involving travel between those times, i.e. not starting within those times - which means my little hypothetical Maidenhead - Paddington example won't work after all.

Has anybody seen any copies of the wording that disagree with that on NRE?
 
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