Night tube-problems with capping?

[londonbridge]

In the past there has been discussion of Oyster users being charged incorrectly when using 'through-the-night' services on National Rail, caused by stations moving over to the 'next day' at different times, and resulting in problems applying the correct cap. Not sure if its been discussed but I'm wondering if there is potential for similar problems with the launch of the night tube? As many of us know, the Oyster Day runs from 4.30am to 4.29am, how will fares charged and/or caps applied be affected with people touching in before 4.30 and out afterwards? Will stations be moved over to the next day at staggered times, causing similar issues? What about contactless users and the different way in which caps are applied when compared to Oyster?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The *easiest* approach would surely be that any fare that crosses the boundaries between two days is charged onto the second day (that way you don't have the issue of the cap already being calculated).

You just need to make a rule and implement it consistently, it barely matters what it is.

 

[Panda]

Capping and fares will apply based on the starting time (tap in time) of your journey.

It will work the same for Oyster and contactless.

The previous day ends at 04:29:59 and the new day starts at 04:30:00 for all stations and buses.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That therefore means a delay in calculating the cap until such journeys would have timed out, I guess?

 

[Panda]

Caps on Oyster are only applied when you tap out (otherwise it is an incomplete fare which does not contribute to your cap). Caps on contactless are applied when they do their settlement which for late journeys isn't done until the next day, so enough time to calculate it correctly.

 

[Paul Kelly]

The *easiest* approach would surely be that any fare that crosses the boundaries between two days is charged onto the second day (that way you don't have the issue of the cap already being calculated).

You just need to make a rule and implement it consistently, it barely matters what it is.

If I understood correctly at the time, I think the problem in the past was that the "boundary between two days" was different for different stations and not co-ordinated. From the posts above it sounds like this has been fixed now?

 

[MikeWh]

If I understood correctly at the time, I think the problem in the past was that the "boundary between two days" was different for different stations and not co-ordinated. From the posts above it sounds like this has been fixed now?

That's my understanding too. I haven't heard any complaints about this problem on National Rail services for a couple of years or more.

 

[Mojo]

Any touch ins before 04.29 will count towards journeys on the previous day's service, this includes for the purposes of capping and also for Travelcards [a bug on NR TVMs that showed cards touched after Midnight as expired was apparently fixed in July]. This will also apply if you have to make use of an OSI.

The rules have been clarified to make it clear that a Travelcard purchased in advance is valid from 00.01 on the actual date it is valid (i.e. 24.01 in the ticketing day), but Day Travelcards will not be available to purchase from LU machines until 04.30.

 

[greatkingrat]

Will it be able to cope with OSIs if you touch out one station at 0425, and touch in another at 0435?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Any touch ins before 04.29 will count towards journeys on the previous day's service, this includes for the purposes of capping and also for Travelcards

Does this also apply to paper Travelcards do you know, and it it just on Fridays and Saturdays or on every night of the week? If it's a permanent change it seems it could amount to a useful extra bit of validity (and be a further complicated exception to the rules for online journey planners to implement).

For example, if I had bought an out-boundary Travelcard from Reading to London Zones 1-6 but somehow had left it to the very last minute to actually make the journey in to Paddington, under the old rules the latest train I could have got was the 0224 (arriving Paddington at 0318), because the ticket would expire at 0430. With the new rules, I could take the 0354 train (arriving Paddington at 0449) because, once the train had departed West Drayton at 0422, the Travelcard portion of the ticket would kick in, allowing me to continue travelling as long as the journey had started at 0429 or earlier.

 

[MikeWh]

Will it be able to cope with OSIs if you touch out one station at 0425, and touch in another at 0435?

It should be able to. It certainly gets it right if you touch out at 1555 and back in at 1610 in that the whole journey is charged off-peak. The entry charge for the second entry is set at the peak value though, so I wonder whether a new entry charge might be deducted at 0435.

Anyone fancy an overnight testing session?