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Nightmare: Does a "caution" show up on a criminal record check?

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mrproblems

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Does a caution show up on a criminal record check if it's been done by a london midland person
 
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mrproblems

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basically i didn't get a ticket

then offered to pay the penalty fine but the inspector said she needed to "caution" me

it wasn't british transport police

does this count as a criminal offence?
 

bb21

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If you didn't buy a ticket where facilities exist then yes, it is a criminal offence.

If by "caution" you mean "You don't have to say anything, but anything you do say..." then no, in itself that does not constitute a criminal offence.

That is about as much as I can say from what you described without further details.
 

mrproblems

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i got on the train and didn't buy a ticket as i normally get one on the train

there wasn't a conductor on the train so when i got off there were conductors waiting to "nab people"
 

mrproblems

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no. they said i had to pay it but then changed their minds. i did give a fake name but then i told them my real name after as i was scared
 

mrproblems

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yeah i gave them the correct address

but i didn't get any paperwork

basically as they were reading the rights they said you are free to leave at any time so i left?
 

cuccir

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When did this happen? Was it within the last few months? If so, they may still be considering whether or not to prosecute you.

If it was over a year ago, then it seems that they didn't follow this up, so it would seem likely that you've gotten away with this. Them 'cautioning' you about your rights, or 'cautioning' you in person to not do this again is not the same as a Police Caution, which is what would be on a record.
 

Bletchleyite

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You'll have to wait for a letter, then, I'm afraid. You will find out what they intend to do then. It may or may not mean a criminal record.

If you gave a fake name there is a very high chance they will seek to prosecute.
 

mrproblems

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it was this morning

i've emailed the ceo of london midland grovelling and apologisting and offering to pay the fine/fare
 

Darandio

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Not really sure the CEO will be at all interested to be honest. As already stated, wait for a letter, they may well want to make an example of you so post back for guidance once you receive it.
 

Bletchleyite

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LM are not generally prosecution-happy. You may find a settlement is offered. If it is, cough up. And don't do it again, as if there is a second time (I'm assuming this to be the first) they will not be as nice.
 

Harlequin

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Hopefully you'll be offered a settlement, in which case I would be minded to take it without resistance but you might want to start saving for a sum upwards of £80.00, perhaps higher still. The fact that you gave a false name and then left (albeit with the right to) whilst you were being cautioned may not have helped in terms of the attitude test however. Hopefully it's a lesson learned.
 

cuccir

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Just to answer the initial question - no, this will not appear on a criminal record at the moment but it would, likely for to 1 year on your regular record and permanently on enhaced DBS checks, if you were to be successfully prosecuted (but not if you settle out of court).
 

SussexMan

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Just to answer the initial question - no, this will not appear on a criminal record at the moment but it would, likely for to 1 year on your regular record and permanently on enhaced DBS checks, if you were to be successfully prosecuted (but not if you settle out of court).

For a bylaw offence?

And incidentally, not all recordable offences now remain on your criminal record (from a DBS disclosure point of view) permanently.
 

falcon

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That type of 'caution' is nothing to do with criminal records. The 'caution' in the case you were involved in means you are being warned that you are about to be asked questions about a suspected offence and therefore you should be cautious (hens the word caution) not to incriminate yourself by admitting something that may get you convicted. A police caution at a police station is given if after admitting an offence the defendant agrees to the offer. That type can be put on recored.
 

Fare-Cop

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As others have said, you'll have to wait and see what their letter to you says, but having read through the thread I see that you admit that you gave a false address at first

Potentially, that lifts this beyond a basic Byelaw offence.

From your posts it seems that you failed to buy a valid ticket before travelling and then when questioned about that, you gave a false address.

I suggest that is sufficient evidence to proceed to prosecution of the more serious offence of 'intent to avoid payment of the correct fare' and it will explain why you were cautioned in accordance with PACE before the staff member took notes and told you that you would be reported.

Hopefully, if there is nothing on record in your name that indicates you have had a previous warning, LM will allow you to make a payment to clear the matter up.
 

mrproblems

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it was a real address, just a false name.

what about if i have a criminal record already for an offence commited about 8 years ago for using a dodgy travelcard
 

Haywain

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That type of 'caution' is nothing to do with criminal records. The 'caution' in the case you were involved in means you are being warned that you are about to be asked questions about a suspected offence and therefore you should be cautious (hens the word caution) not to incriminate yourself by admitting something that may get you convicted
I'm not sure that's right. You are being cautioned (warned) that you are providing admissible evidence. Incrimination is likely to make a court case easier but you are certainly not being warned against it.
 

falcon

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I'm not sure that's right. You are being cautioned (warned) that you are providing admissible evidence. Incrimination is likely to make a court case easier but you are certainly not being warned against it.
No that's not correct. You are not giving admissible evidence until you have been cautioned
The caution was originally from the Judges Rules which judges made believe it or not! and what those Judges decided was " that it be bad enough for a man to be convicted of an offence but it be worse that it be by his own words". That is the origin of the "caution" you are being warned that you are suspected of committing an offence and "you do not have to say anything" because it is for the accuser to prove the offence and if you chose to speak if that evidence you spoke convicts you it will be admissable in court as you were warned "cautioned" And you ARE being warned that you do not have to answer questions.

Judges rules and cautions. https://www.britannica.com/topic/crime-law/Detection-of-crime#ref500437
 

MG11

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Does a caution show up on a criminal record check if it's been done by a london midland person
An Interview Under Caution is an interview to gather admissable evidence for court to go against you in a prosecution. The interview itself does not carry a criminal record but if the case goes to court and you are prosecuted, it could do. If you are prosecuted under byelaws, then you will not receive a criminal record, if you are prosecuted under the RORA 1889, then you will.
 

mrproblems

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i tried to call the penalty fares number to pay the penalty fare, but they said it wasn't a penalty fare, it was an "MG11" and i needed to wait for the letter

how long does it normally take roughly for the letter to turn up?

if it's an rora do they do a criminal records check or do they base it on whether you've been in trouble with LM before
 

najaB

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how long does it normally take roughly for the letter to turn up?
Anything from a couple of weeks through to a couple of months. Technically they have up to six months to decide if they are bringing charges and file papers in the Magistrates Court.
 
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