No 185s to Hull

[Jordy]

Hi

Have just read the Railway Herald, it says that the new class 185 desiros for TPExpress will not be running to Hull for much longer, due to infastructure problems East of Leeds, the Desiros can not run at full line speed, so 9 2-car class 170s from South West Trains are going to run the Manchester to Hull service.

The 185s have apparently started testing on the Cleethorpes line, I just need to find out when!

Jordy

 

[Coxster]

9 2-car class 170s from South West Trains are going to run the Manchester to Hull service.

Yeah, and South West Trains will be receiving replacement 158s to standardise their diesel fleet of 158789/158786 and their 22 159s. The 170s going up north are 170301-308 and 170392. 170392 was the one originally painted in Southern livery and numbered 170727 in error.

 

[Max]

Well this, I have to say, is a complete cheek :mad: TPE passengers are not going to be happy to see old class 170s after the company has been building up the start of the 185s for so long. Besides, the Hull route needs the extra capacity, particularly at rush hour between Leeds and Manchester, whereas I can't see the demand on the Cleethorpes route.

Where exactly is this infastructure problem, as if it is before Micklefield they are going to have to sort it out for the whole of North Transpennine, and quickly! Also, how bad are the speed restrictions? It must be pretty bad if TPE are willing to withdraw them from the route.

 

[Jordy]

whereas I can't see the demand on the Cleethorpes route.

Thought you might say something like that, but I can assure you that there is plenty of demand!

Where exactly is this infastructure problem, as if it is before Micklefield they are going to have to sort it out for the whole of North Transpennine, and quickly! Also, how bad are the speed restrictions? It must be pretty bad if TPE are willing to withdraw them from the route.

No idea, sorry, this is just what I read in the Railway Herald

Jordy

 

[Techniquest]

Bah, nothing decent on Leeds to Hull now then. 2-car 170s versus 185s, HMMMMMMM. Might I be so bold as to say DREADFUL (in a literal sense)?

Cleethorpes Vs Hull for 185s, no idea as to which one I would prefer to see 185s in, 50/50 for me.

Not surprised it's infrastructure related, haven't they been going on about problems with that part of the network in Leeds for quite some time? Lazy Network Rail rears its ugly head once again...

 

[Andrew]

Lazy Network Rail rears its ugly head once again...

Naturally the operator should be allowed to run whatever train they want, no matter how much infrastructure modifications may cost. Network Rail are obviously there to make sure anything and everything is possible - not to be cost effective and fund the most necessary projects.

 

[Tom B]

Don't worry. They'll still say that they're "wonderful shiny new trains" (forgetting they're what the SRDC has finished with).

 

[David]

Well this, I have to say, is a complete cheek :mad: TPE passengers are not going to be happy to see old class 170s after the company has been building up the start of the 185s for so long. Besides, the Hull route needs the extra capacity, particularly at rush hour between Leeds and Manchester, whereas I can't see the demand on the Cleethorpes route.

You haven't seen the 07:10 and 08:10 departures from Scunthorpe to Manchester then.

Whenever I use TPE, these are the most common trains I catch, and from Scunthorpe, I am usually standing. The overcrowding gets even worse at Doncaster, and stops of 5 minutes are not uncommon there as there is lots of passengers trying to get on the train as lots are trying to get off. (These are 2 car 158's by the way.) From Doncaster to Manchester on these services, there is hardly any ticket checks because the conducter can not move down the train because of everyone standing.

 

[Techniquest]

Naturally the operator should be allowed to run whatever train they want, no matter how much infrastructure modifications may cost. Network Rail are obviously there to make sure anything and everything is possible - not to be cost effective and fund the most necessary projects.

Oh take your sarcasm and give it to GNER...

I'll respond in a more full way later.

 

[Andrew]

From what I can see (granted it's very little of the whole picture) NR have 158s working fine on some section of track. They/TPE realise far too late that the 185s aren't going to work on it. I fail to see how it is entirely Network Rail's fault or that NR should pay for an upgrade. It's not a planned upgrade - it's unlikely to have been budgeted for. Using trains that don't need the upgrade seems to me to be common sense - especially if TPE need the extra units anyway, and these 170s will be spare.

 

[Techniquest]

What I guess I was getting at was surely NR and FTPX would have known if a problem relating to infrastructure was going to affect the 185s? If so, surely they could have fixed the problem?

And yes, HSTs run through from Leeds through Micklefield and up through Church Fenton with no problems to York, so why there is a problem with 185s I don't know.

 

[Guinness]

Seems odd about the use of 170s. How many drivers are actually trained on them? I think it would make far better sense for them to keep some 158s until the Infrastructure is ready before sending them off to SWT.

 

[Andrew]

Could it be a weight problem? Aren't the 185s the stupidly heavy ones, or is that unfounded rumour?

 

[Max]

Hmm there may be something in that last comment - I seem to remember that there is a weight restriction between Leeds and Selby which prevents the Hull Executive (HST) from going straight to Hull from Neville Hill. It goes via Doncaster instead. However, this must be between Hambleton and Selby, as HSTs run along the rest of that line (ie GNER Diversions Hambleton-Leeds).

 

[Jordy]

Andrew: Yes thats what they say

Hmm there may be something in that last comment - I seem to remember that there is a weight restriction between Leeds and Selby which prevents the Hull Executive (HST) from going straight to Hull from Neville Hill. It goes via Doncaster instead. However, this must be between Hambleton and Selby, as HSTs run along the rest of that line (ie GNER Diversions Hambleton-Leeds).

Thats a good point, I bet that explains it!

Jordy

 

[Max]

Surely this speed restriction cannot delay services too badly? There is always loads of slack in the timetable at Leeds on Hull-Manchester services.

I can see this being a real problem for TPE, and may take ages to fix

 

[Techniquest]

GNER run a HST via Hambleton every Saturday, engineering works permitting IIRC. The HST runs fast from Harrogate to Leeds, comes out past Neville Hill via that freight-only curve in the Hambleton area (can't remember which junctions they are off the top of my head) down to Donny.

 

[Met Driver]

(can't remember which junctions they are off the top of my head)

Hambleton West & South juncs FWIW.

 

[Techniquest]

Had a feeling that was the case. Still, it would be worth doing!