No Boxing Day Southeastern HS1 service this year (2017)

[Joe Paxton]

In the last few years Southeastern has run a limited Highspeed service on HS1 between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet calling at Stratford, which last year was extended to Gravesend.

However, as per the Southeastern website, "There will be no high speed services running on Boxing Day this year".

Can anyone say why? HS1 isn't closed as Eurostar services are running as usual on the 26th.

(On a broader note, for a few years Southeastern also ran a few suburban Boxing Day services - I'd read that whilst these did make money, because of the 'cap and collar' revenue regime under the previous franchise contract they were not remunerative enough for Southeastern to continue running them, which was and is a shame.)

 

[Pumbaa]

Was not specified in the Direct Award Contract i.e. DfT aren't paying, so Southeastern aren't bothering.

 

[Antman]

I was told my a member of staff at Ashford that engineering work is preventing them running a Boxing Day service.

 

[kentman]

The only Boxing day service I've seen so far (no doubt sure someone will correct this) is London Overground, West Croydon to Dalston Junction. None of the London airport services look to be running.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Are GTR operating a London-Brighton timetable again this year?

 

[kentman]

There a few WTT showing, but since the Gatwick express is showing as a Bus I suspect they have just not been canceled out of the WTT yet.

 

[greatkingrat]

The only Boxing day service I've seen so far (no doubt sure someone will correct this) is London Overground, West Croydon to Dalston Junction. None of the London airport services look to be running.

Also Clapham Junction to Camden Road.

 

[kentman]

Also Clapham Junction to Camden Road.

Thanks. Another plus for rail devolution in London.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The only Boxing day service I've seen so far (no doubt sure someone will correct this) is London Overground, West Croydon to Dalston Junction. None of the London airport services look to be running.

That's great news re the ELL service, I had wondered how long it would be until LO started running something on Boxing Day. I wonder if that was part of the new (2016) TfL concession agreement with Arriva Rail London? Obviously needs Network Rail to play along too.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Was not specified in the Direct Award Contract i.e. DfT aren't paying, so Southeastern aren't bothering.

The direct award franchise agreement began in January 2015, so I'm not sure that follows given Southeastern ran services on the Boxing Days of both 2015 and 2016.

Unless running said services was Southeastern's own initiative (as opposed to a DfT stipulation), and something like the 'cap and collar' revenue regime I mentioned in my first post means that the amount they have to pay back to the DfT means they no longer consider it a financially worthwhile exercise?

 

[david737]

I was told my a member of staff at Ashford that engineering work is preventing them running a Boxing Day service.

That's correct Ashford station area inc CTRL connections closed from 2300 Sun Xmas Eve to 0500 Wed 27th Dec.

 

[Ze Random One]

Are GTR operating a London-Brighton timetable again this year?

GTR have announced that they will not be running any rail services this year, just Gatwick BusEx.
http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/plan-your-journey/christmas-and-new-year-2017/

I mean we knew that was on the cards as soon as the DfT let them get away with giving up on running trains after 2330 5 days a week, without being forced to run replacement buses for the difficult-to-make-by-TfL connections.

I don't expect to see them back...

 

[Antman]

That's correct Ashford station area inc CTRL connections closed from 2300 Sun Xmas Eve to 0500 Wed 27th Dec.

They could still run a high speed service to and from Ebbsfleet with a RRS to Ashford.

 

[Joe Paxton]

They could still run a high speed service to and from Ebbsfleet with a RRS to Ashford.

Possibly because access to the depot at Ashford is blocked? If so, I guess trains could be stabled at HS1 stations but perhaps this is seen as too logistically complicated (e.g. with the extra security required over Christmas Day).

Between 2012 and 2015, an SE Highspeed service ran between Ashford and St Pancras, calling at Ebbsfleet and Stratford. In 2016 the service ran instead from Gravesend to St Pancras, again calling at Ebbsfleet and Stratford. I don't know why it didn't run from Ashford, maybe there wasn't enough Boxing Day custom from East Kent - can anyone offer enlightenment?

 

[Antman]

Possibly because access to the depot at Ashford is blocked? If so, I guess trains could be stabled at HS1 stations but perhaps this is seen as too logistically complicated (e.g. with the extra security required over Christmas Day).

Between 2012 and 2015, an SE Highspeed service ran between Ashford and St Pancras, calling at Ebbsfleet and Stratford. In 2016 the service ran instead from Gravesend to St Pancras, again calling at Ebbsfleet and Stratford. I don't know why it didn't run from Ashford, maybe there wasn't enough Boxing Day custom from East Kent - can anyone offer enlightenment?

It would only take 2 or 3 trains to maintain a half hourly service between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet and I would have thought they could be stabled safely at St Pancras or Ebbsfleet?

 

[Joe Paxton]

It would only take 2 or 3 trains to maintain a half hourly service between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet and I would have thought they could be stabled safety at St Pancras or Ebbsfleet?

Yes, from a layman's point of view I'd think it should be possible.

 

[FOH]

The TfL 6 month look ahead says no London Overground services at all on Boxing Day

 

[Starmill]

GTR last year ran quite a number of Southern suburban services on Boxing day.

Chiltern Railways services between London Marylbone and Oxford Parkway appear to be running.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The TfL 6 month look ahead says no London Overground services at all on Boxing Day

Indeed, however the NRE journey planner does show Boxing Day LO services running on the ELL between West Croydon and Dalston Junction.

Perhaps the 6 month look-ahead document is overly cautious, as these services haven't yet been fully confirmed?

 

[Class 466]

Each 395 has to be certified fit for service every day by a Hitachi Engineer, this is far easier to do in a depot location for starters - and given how much it costs to run over HS1, I'd imagine a STP - EBD shuttle wouldn't bring in nearly enough to even warrant running it.

 

[FOH]

Indeed, however the NRE journey planner does show Boxing Day LO services running on the ELL between West Croydon and Dalston Junction.

Perhaps the 6 month look-ahead document is overly cautious, as these services haven't yet been fully confirmed?

I had a look today and I can’t see anything listed for the 26th

 

[Joe Paxton]

I had a look today and I can’t see anything listed for the 26th

Yep, nothing showing now. I can assure you when I posted that on 19 October services were showing as running.

Perhaps there was a nascent plan for some LO Boxing Day services that hasn't come to be for whatever reason. Certainly I'm not aware of there ever having been any TfL publicity about there being any Boxing Day LO services, and TfL's webpage for Boxing Day travel is unambiguous in stating there are no LO services running on the 26th (unlike the page URL, which rather misleadingly has '2016' in it - reusing last year's work it seems!).

 

[Ianno87]

It would only take 2 or 3 trains to maintain a half hourly service between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet and I would have thought they could be stabled safely at St Pancras or Ebbsfleet?

Not sure if it's the case for 395s, but some EMUs may be required to be kept live on the OLE at all times when outstabled, otherwise they won't start up from 'cold'.

Might not be practical if there is an Xmas day isolation of the power on HS1 cutting power to the platforms too.

 

[rmt4ever]

I think it’s great that there is less Boxing Day services than last year

I hope everyone learns to stay at home or pop down to their local, and enjoy the extended break with friends and family

 

[Ze Random One]

I think it’s great that there is less Boxing Day services than last year

I hope everyone learns to stay at home or pop down to their local, and enjoy the extended break with friends and family

@hungry, you must have a car. Or live in the same village as you friends and family.

Because, I know that the lack of public transport on Boxing day (or Christmas day) substantially inhibits spending those days with family or most of my friends.
Like many employers, mine expects me to attend the office on 27 December (given it is not a bank holiday this year). Which means that, instead of spending most of boxing day with my family, and 4 hours on a combination of trains, I will probably have to spend all day on National Express coaches and local buses.

Of course, my other options are to fly (bit then I will have to contend with the lack of onward travel options from the airport), or to have "done" Christmas by mid afternoon on the 24th, and enjoy the 25th and 26th alone in the flat.

I don't begrudge a break for rail employees, but some sort of skeleton service would go a long way to allowing people to spend more time with their families at Christmas.

 

[rmt4ever]

@hungry, you must have a car. Or live in the same village as you friends and family.

Because, I know that the lack of public transport on Boxing day (or Christmas day) substantially inhibits spending those days with family or most of my friends.
Like many employers, mine expects me to attend the office on 27 December (given it is not a bank holiday this year). Which means that, instead of spending most of boxing day with my family, and 4 hours on a combination of trains, I will probably have to spend all day on National Express coaches and local buses.

Of course, my other options are to fly (bit then I will have to contend with the lack of onward travel options from the airport), or to have "done" Christmas by mid afternoon on the 24th, and enjoy the 25th and 26th alone in the flat.

I don't begrudge a break for rail employees, but some sort of skeleton service would go a long way to allowing people to spend more time with their families at Christmas.

No car. Live with the Mrs and my local is a ten min walk away,

Take an annual leave day on the 27th. I am taking AL from 24th to 31st inclusive

 

[berneyarms]

We get the same thing every year - please try to remember that we are all different.

Christmas is primarily a family event and especially children, but for those people who live alone, are away from home, or don’t have family, who are a significant number of people, it can be a lonely and isolating (even depressing) time, and I’d have to say that blasé comments such as “I hope everyone learns to stay at home” are frankly insulting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure if it's the case for 395s, but some EMUs may be required to be kept live on the OLE at all times when outstabled, otherwise they won't start up from 'cold'.

What, really? That's a terrible piece of design if so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Will be interesting to see if given the poor staff goodwill at the minute Merseyrail operate this year or not.

 

[185143]

Will be interesting to see if given the poor staff goodwill at the minute Merseyrail operate this year or not.

I'm personally expecting an RMT strike, and have done for some time...