No Ticket? Fine/Court/Criminal Record? Help?

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by DPC_1989, 16 May 2012.

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  1. DPC_1989

    DPC_1989 Member

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    Thanks island, I'll have to post what the letter says when it eventually arrives.

    And i'll note what you've said to include in my reply, hopefully I'll be able to sort this whole mess out by complying and co-operating.
     
  2. island

    island Established Member

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    We would be pleased to proof-read your reply before you send it, not least because it is very easy to incriminate yourself unintentionally in a reply.

    In the meantime, calm down :) It's unlikely to be the end of the world.
     
  3. DPC_1989

    DPC_1989 Member

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    haha wise words, will do. I'll have to cancel that flight to mexico and change my name back from the alter ego I had planned...
     
  4. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If they decide to prosecute, you could plead guilty and simply pay the fine. If they are prosecuting you under the Regulation of Railways Act 5.3, then you will get a criminal record. I'm not sure this is what you really want, and it's not what I'd recommend.

    It is better to avoid a situation where a court imposes a fine on you. Therefore, if the company is inclined to prosecute you, then you would be advised to consider an out of court settlement with the relevant Train Company. Someone with no previous record has a reasonable chance of reaching a settlement.

    You'll need to wait for them to write to you, and see what the letter says before deciding how to proceed.
     
  5. DPC_1989

    DPC_1989 Member

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    Thanks Yorkie, Id like to avoid a court imposed fine and criminal record at all costs.

    What do you believe to be a good line of attack on this? Write to them when I hear from them offering to pay the compensation to the train company out of court?

    I don't want to argue or to take it to court and try and get around it that way, I'd rather just pay up and accept it was a mistake and that I'll compensate for that.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    and by fine I didn't mean I'd like to go to court and pay the fine, I meant pay the out of court compensation fee, I just wasn't aware it wasn't called a fine as this is all totally new and foreign to me! apologies for the confusion!
     
  6. Chapeltom

    Chapeltom Established Member

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    Are we talking about Northern Rail or Merseyrail here just out of interest?
     
  7. DPC_1989

    DPC_1989 Member

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    Im not sure, possibly?
     
  8. Chapeltom

    Chapeltom Established Member

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    Where did you travel from say West Allerton, Mossley Hill, Edge Hill etc, one of the City Line services (blue trains) or Aigburth, Brunswick etc, Northern Line services (grey/yellow trains).
     
  9. exile

    exile Established Member

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    Normally at Lime St the barrier staff do a cursory check but a couple of times a month there is a more thorough check by RPIs. Not sure who they work for, the station is owned by Network Rail. There is an excess fare kiosk most days but not sure it was there today. Bizarrely, there are only barriers at (a) platforms 1 to 6 (b) platform 7 (Virgin trains) (c) underground at top of escalators. The lift down to the underground platform has no barrier and neither does platform 8/9.
     
  10. DPC_1989

    DPC_1989 Member

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    I was travelling from Broad Green, so the trains on the manchester victoria line/preston/wigan i think?

    And yes its platform 1 usually, so it was through those barriers
     
  11. Chapeltom

    Chapeltom Established Member

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    Yeah, Northern. Its funny, because you only usually have to flash something orange to the guys at Lime Street. I've seen people without tickets walk straight through without a problem!
     
  12. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    1. Please try to stop worrying. If this really is your first offence then it really isn't going to end up in court unless you do something particularly stupid like ignore all correspondance.
    2. You will get a letter asking for your side of the story. Tell it honestly so that your story matches the report by the RPI.
    3. Someone on here will proof read your reply if you want, but if you tell it exactly like it was, with a sincere apology, there shouldn't be much of a problem.
    4. They may offer you a settlement fee to close the matter at the same time, or it may come in response to your statement. As long as you've been truthful and remorseful I can pretty much guarantee that a settlement will be offered for a first offence.
    5. If you send off the settlement asked for that will be the end of the matter. No criminal record, but your details will be held on railway files so they can see if you do it again.
    6. Don't worry about confusing a fine with an administrative penalty or fee. It's very easy to do if you aren't aware of the technicallities. We tend to re-iterate the difference as a way of educating people who find us in similar situations.
     
  13. DPC_1989

    DPC_1989 Member

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    MikeWH. Thanks very much for the detailed reply, I'm going to comply with exactly what they say/ask and I'll post what the letter says and/or my response to it up on here in case I have done something tragically wrong in the letter.

    Like I said, it was a first offence, out of pure stupidity and panic, the inspector sort of understood that I believe, and I wrote down a lot of notes of what happened and why it did, so that when I come to write the letter there are no changes/discrepancies.

    Once again I'd just like to thank you all for your knowledge of how the system/procedure works. I wasn't coming on here for sympathy or for someone to understand my story, I just wanted an honest outlook on how these things play out and some knowledge of an area which I have very little, so thanks again to everyone on this forum for contributing with everything, its been a massive help, it really has, and its a credit to this forum in terms of not only the quality of the conversation and comments, but in the speed of the replies, so once again, thank you!
     
  14. Solent&Wessex

    Solent&Wessex Established Member

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    Just for information there was a joint operation on the 16th at Liverpool involving RPOs from Northern, TPE and possibly others. Anicdotal evidence suggests that Northern and TPE tend to process things differently, with Northern only requesting payment of the fare and a small admin fee at the first instance, with TPE putting everything straight through to the prosecutions unit at the first instance, and expecting a much larger out of court settlement to avoid going any further.
     
  15. snail

    snail Established Member

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    Why is this so frequently the first response to so many that come here looking for advice? I know it's true but it sounds so pedantic and superior. If someone has to pay above the normal fare they will see it as a fine, even though we more knowledgeable types know it is really a penalty.
     
  16. Brucey

    Brucey Member

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    It avoids confusion in any further discussions as "fine" means something very different (i.e. conviction and criminal record) to "out of court settlement" (i.e. slap on the wrist).
     
  17. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Because usually we are dealing with the law in these discussions so it's helpful if people use terms properly.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
     
  18. DPC_1989

    DPC_1989 Member

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    Hi all again, thanks again for the help, advice and opinions I have received to this post.

    I was stopped and spoken to on 16th May and still have not heard back from anything regarding a possible visit to court and/or paying a fee/fine (whichever is the correct terminology!) in or out of court...

    Just wondering whether anyone has previous experience of how long these things take to come back to you? I believe the rail company was Northern if that helps?

    Thanks again
     
  19. island

    island Established Member

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    It has been known for it to take over two months on occasion.
     
  20. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I thought I was seeing double for a moment!

    alex89, who began this thread : Northern Rail Fare Evasion Letter received., asked exactly the same question this morning in this post.

    I guess you missed it. I replied:
    Perhaps island had this morning's post in mind when replying?

    However, if you don't even receive a letter informing you of their investigation and asking for your version of events within another 2 or 3 weeks (and it hadn't merely been misdirected), then it might become safe to assume that you never will. Only time will tell, unless you're brave enough to phone their Prosecutions' Department to ask without risking that you would incriminate yourself. Without having spoken with you to assess your skills in such a matter, I would prefer that you asked a solicitor to make that call on your behalf if you really didn't want to wait and find out the long way.
     
    Last edited: 1 Jul 2012
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