No Trains on Boxing Day

[43066]

What do they do on the lines where trains are running Christmas and Boxing day?

Playing devil's advocate, I would suggest they do the same as on the lines running trains.

There are no trains anywhere on the network on Xmas day, other than engineering trains. On Boxing Day it’ll vary. Some will be lines which are four tracked such as the BML, EL on the west and eastern sections, so two lines can remain open while the other pair is worked on.

Some jobs, eg this year’s MML blockade, will require complete closure, and it’ll still make sense to schedule them over Xmas, hence no EL line, and no trains to or from Luton airport this year. The alternative would be long blockades over Easter, the August bank holiday etc.,potentially disrupting far more people in the case of airport services.

 

[Geswedey]

I did 40 years with BR and 3 TOCs, 26 years of which involved shift work including nights

I accepted that I would be working to provide a service at times when most people wouldn't be working including one year finishing work at 0200 on Christmas morning and being at work at 0400 on Boxing Day.

I just wonder what some of the complainers on here would think if their places of work wanted them on duty on Bank Holidays and at Christmas; would they still feel the same?

 

[Gemz91]

could a TOC not simply reduce the staffing bill by running their trains as DOO, letting the Safety Critical guards stay at home over the festive period? A full service could then return by the 6th of January

Apart from the ridiculous statement of running DOO, why are we picking the 6th of January as the return to normal?

 

[Qwerty133]

It’s notable that, despite the perception of railway unions being stronger than NHS unions, a “Standard bank holiday enhancement” is not something most traincrew get. For most of us bank holidays, apart from Xmas day and Boxing Day, simply aren’t a concept we benefit from. We even have to use annual leave for Xmas day and Boxing Day if rostered to work, despite no trains turning a wheel across much of the network. That said, I’m glad to hear that NHS staff get those enhancements - I’m sure they’re well deserved.

On the railway it is expected that virtually all staff make themselves available for the full range of shifts and therefore that over a period time that all staff at the same grade will work the same proportion of weekends, bank holidays and other undesirable hours and therefore the premium for working out of hours is simply included within the base salary rather than given as an enhancement. Within the NHS, however, there are wide scale differentials as to the levels of out of hours working required between employees at the same grade and therefore the enhancements for such work have to fall outside the base salary so that those who end up working the least desirable hours are paid more for the inconvenience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from the ridiculous statement of running DOO, why are we picking the 6th of January as the return to normal?

Because it's the first Monday, many office workers take holiday up to then.

 

[AlterEgo]

As a driver, when do you suggest the essential engineering work takes place if it can’t be done over Christmas and Boxing Day because trains are running?

Surely you just do what nearly everyone else does in Europe and spread it across the year. Works fine on much better, more socially conscious and more customer focused railways than ours.

 

[43066]

On the railway it is expected that virtually all staff make themselves available for the full range of shifts and therefore that over a period time that all staff at the same grade will work the same proportion of weekends, bank holidays and other undesirable hours and therefore the premium for working out of hours is simply included within the base salary rather than given as an enhancement. Within the NHS, however, there are wide scale differentials as to the levels of out of hours working required between employees at the same grade and therefore the enhancements for such work have to fall outside the base salary so that those who end up working the least desirable hours are paid more for the inconvenience.

Not sure that follows, “the full range of shifts” for rail staff often doesn’t include Sundays, and very very few work Xmas or Boxing Day (a higher proportion of front line NHS staff will, including midwives and nurses), so it is not right to say working these shifts is included in staff base salaries. It is no less inconvenient for railway staff to work antisocial shifts than it is for NHS staff, or others, yet some appear to have a problem with railway staff being incentivised to do so, while this is accepted in other industries.

(The NHS also has bizarre pay banding where people in a hospitality department’s pay will be arbitrarily based on that of a junior nurse, for example).

 

[uww11x]

It's disgusting in 2024 that this continues. These works should be done in a quiet month like February

 

[Geswedey]

Surely you just do what nearly everyone else does in Europe and spread it across the year. Works fine on much better, more socially conscious and more customer focused railways than ours.

So how do suggest the replacement of Agar Grove bridge is spread over the year for example?

 

[Magdalia]

That’s not an answer to the question which was about what makes the *customers* different to any other bank holiday.

That's already been answered, apart from some retail and sport, nearly everything is shut.

 

[Geswedey]

It's disgusting in 2024 that this continues. These works should be done in a quiet month like February

So people don't go to work in February as it is quiet then

 

[Magdalia]

These works should be done in a quiet month like February

February is not a quiet month. Nearly everyone is at work, with many needing trains for commuting, apart from a few on skiing holidays. In term time it would be very disruptive for students getting to and from school or college. Long engineering blocks are rarely scheduled for term time.

 

[johncrossley]

Had to make a couple of journeys by car today, owing to no buses or trains running.
I couldn’t believe the volume of traffic in the North West (99% cars) on the M56/M60/M6/M61

If only there was a Sunday type train service running on Boxing Day…but then again most of the North West still wouldn’t have any trains!

I couldn't believe the traffic on the M25 yesterday. Not quite rush hour, but there was congestion and certainly busier than certain times when there is a normal train service.

The lack of train service isn't to do with demand. London buses were running a normal Sunday/bank holiday service and they were clearly very busy.

 

[Magdalia]

why are we picking the 6th of January as the return to normal?

Here in the Fens the return to normal will be on 6 January. That's when Cambridge-Royston/Audley End reopens, having been closed since end of service on Christmas Eve.

 

[Geswedey]

Because it's the first Monday, many office workers take holiday up to then.

So you are admitting that a lot of people don't work for nearly a fortnight over Christmas and that these people expect others that they might need the services of like the emergency services, Hospital staff, shop workers and transportation workers to be available to work those days. I appreciate that those of use who choose or chose to work in those industries mostly knew what they were signing up for it it still nice to have a lit bit of time off at Christmas.

 

[bramling]

It's disgusting in 2024 that this continues. These works should be done in a quiet month like February

In what way is February quiet? On the contrary February is busy as few people are on leave from work.

If we want works to happen over quieter months then summer holidays would be a potential time, but then that we’d instead be reading “it’s disgusting that in 2024 I can’t use the train for a family day out to the beach”.

 

[The Planner]

What do they do on the lines where trains are running Christmas and Boxing day?

Playing devil's advocate, I would suggest they do the same as on the lines running trains.

There are no trains anywhere on the network on Xmas day, other than engineering trains. On Boxing Day it’ll vary. Some will be lines which are four tracked such as the BML, EL on the west and eastern sections, so two lines can remain open while the other pair is worked on.

Some jobs, eg this year’s MML blockade, will require complete closure, and it’ll still make sense to schedule them over Xmas, hence no EL line, and no trains to or from Luton airport this year. The alternative would be long blockades over Easter, the August bank holiday etc.,potentially disrupting far more people in the case of airport services.

Surely you just do what nearly everyone else does in Europe and spread it across the year. Works fine on much better, more socially conscious and more customer focused railways than ours.

It's disgusting in 2024 that this continues. These works should be done in a quiet month like February

This is another circular RailForums argument. Stuff gets done over Xmas because there are less people travelling, the industry compensation mechanism (schedule 4) makes it cheaper and its also where operators want NR to put it. Some lines where trains do run operators accept the fact they will have to be disrupted at other times.

 

[baz962]

Seems to work just fine at TOCs that already operate on Boxing Day.



As a driver, when do you suggest the essential engineering work takes place if it can’t be done over Christmas and Boxing Day because trains are running?

When I worked one at Overground , we had 90 volunteers for 20 turns .

 

[Class 317]

In what way is February quiet? On the contrary February is busy as few people are on leave from work.

If we want works to happen over quieter months then summer holidays would be a potential time, but then that we’d instead be reading “it’s disgusting that in 2024 I can’t use the train for a family day out to the beach”.

Well the North downs line has had a 5 day weekday only closure around the late February half term.

Also another one I think was in a previous half term period.

Engineering works don't all have to happen at Christmas.

Going back to Boxing day trains when I was able to drive I'd finish my shift at about 7am Boxing Day morning and then had the long drive home with the roads were surprisingly busy after around 9am showing demand does exist to travel. If I was working a Boxing Day night shift the roads would be quieter after 6pm.

A later start at 9am and early finish timetable at say 7am would seem to cater for demand and could be covered by a small number of staff volunteering to work a 12 hour shift.

Many signallers, MOM's etc are already on call on this day so the extra staff required should be drivers, guards, dispatch etc which would be far less than required on a Sunday service.

Also I assume a few depot staff and control staff etc but if trains were prepped and ready Christmas Eve fewer of these would be required.

 

[Spartacus]

Lumo would be running frequent services if this government would let them. “Fume”

That'd be interesting with engineering works in numerous places on the ECML....

 

[BAFRA77]

I did 40 years with BR and 3 TOCs, 26 years of which involved shift work including nights

I accepted that I would be working to provide a service at times when most people wouldn't be working including one year finishing work at 0200 on Christmas morning and being at work at 0400 on Boxing Day.

I just wonder what some of the complainers on here would think if their places of work wanted them on duty on Bank Holidays and at Christmas; would they still feel the same?

Up until a few years ago I was either on duty or on call for the two days. Mostly on overnight schedules so could and would be sometimes phoned at 3am

Didn’t bother me in the slightest

 

[Class 317]

When I worked one at Overground , we had 90 volunteers for 20 turns .

Similar at my place of work where we run a slightly reduced control team as no routine testing, training, simulations etc occur. We require 10 in and get at least 20 Volunteers for each shift

 

[507 001]

Manchester Metrolink is operating a near-full service today, after a late start.
So places that had no Boxing Day service under BR (Altrincham, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham) now have one.
Manchester Airport can be reached by tram even though the main line route is closed.
Piccadilly station is closed so Metrolink can only be accessed via the Fairfield back entrance.
Under devolution proposals I should think Andy Burnham will want some local services.

I should think the Cardiff Valleys lines would be working on Boxing Day once the Metro is functional.
The Birmingham Cross City line must also be a candidate.
It's odd that there are no services in Kent when HS1 is fully operational for Eurostar.

As a point of order, yes Metrolink does operate a service on Boxing Day, however it is hardly well patronised, and I suspect it runs at a significant loss.

I’ve worked it a number of times (including one year where we inexplicably decided to run a full Saturday service, starting at 0430) and it’s always quiet.

The last time I worked it I booked on at 0700 but didn’t see a single passenger until 1000. Colleagues who have worked late shifts on Boxing Day tell me that after 1700 or so it dies again.

We could easily cut the service back to being between 0800 and 1800 and I highly doubt anybody would complain. Personally I’d just bin the whole thing off…

 

[380101]

Aye and you can imagine the staff aren't entirely chuffed about the reintroduction about three years ago.

Aye, and as you can imagine, the staff on the Strathclyde side have absolutely no sympathy for their colleagues on the Network side that are moaning about having to now work an extremely limited service, given that we have had to work almost a full service on Boxing day for decades. I expect the service will expand even more in the next few years on the network side.

 

[dangie]

As a driver, who does actually value Christmas day and Boxing Day off... I do however think we should run a Sunday service on both days (using volunteer drivers).

You would need to volunteer about 2-3 months in advance, and the timetable would be constructed around actual availability of traincrew.

This is where relying on voluntary working falls down. Volunteering your services is good, but it also means you can withdraw your voluntary service at any time. Timetables can’t be reliably produced which rely on voluntary service, as the railway has found to its cost.

The only way it can work is that once an employee has volunteered for duty, that commitment is binding (illness excepted, although that can be feigned). Of course the unions won’t agree to that.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Slightly off topic but ….

Some buses but hardly any trains on Boxing Day ….

But loads of trains and hardly any buses on New Years Day

Why the difference?

 

[LAX54]

One for @LAX54

If the box / panel is required to be open, then you are rostered to work it, you can however ask if a collegue wants to work it instead, applications for 'leave' are barred for the Christmas / New Year period.

 

[Spartacus]

Slightly off topic but ….

Some buses but hardly any trains on Boxing Day ….

But loads of trains and hardly any buses on New Years Day

Why the difference?

I'm guessing a lot's to do with the type of traffic flows. While there can often feel like there's a lot pf people moving around on Boxing Day, a lot of it's not the type of thing that rail's suitable for in most places, it's people going from house to house vising families, often loaded down with presents, and unless you both happen to live near a station rail doesn't do that very well. Even those going to work are rarely in the 'commuter' class, going to one big place, and Boxing Day sales shoppers aren't anywhere near as big a thing as they used to be as many will do their sales shopping online.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's already been answered, apart from some retail and sport, nearly everything is shut.

No, it hasn’t. What is it that makes the customers actually different, as in - more abusive? Nothing at all - and the poster wouldn’t even know, as they don’t work Boxing Day by their own admission.

So how do suggest the replacement of Agar Grove bridge is spread over the year for example?

So that’s a nine day closure, do it some other time? There is no mandatory reason for it to happen at Christmas. That’s what happens in other serious countries. Obviously I’m not thick enough to think you spread a single nine day bridge replacement across nine individual days but bless you for thinking that.

 

[chuff chuff]

I expect the service will expand even more in the next few years on the network side.

Yeah I have no doubt your right seems to be the way forward sadly.

The Strathclyde boxing day working has been in place for sometime as you said so the vast majority of staff involved took the job on knowing this
Still not great but there you go.