Non-dating of rover tickets

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As someone who regularly checks tickets, sometimes people 'forget' to write the dates in their rover tickets.

What's the correct procedure for dealing with this? Write the date in? Void a day?

What do other guards/TEs/RPIs do?
 
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Solent&Wessex

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I normally write the date on and put a note on the front of the ticket which says "Staff : Check date Boxes" or similar to highlight the matter to other staff.

I am aware of many (most) of my colleagues who have not the faintest idea about rover validity and just accept them regardless of what they actually are.

I always find there is an extremely high percentage of passengers who "forget" to put the date on before I see them. I just wish there was a rule that a box gets voided if not dated before travel, like there is with staff travel. If there is such a rule for rovers, I've not found it.
 

swt_passenger

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On a first approximation, isn't failure to date a 'x days in y' rover the same as failing to date a carnet?

Do published procedures mention carnets, because plenty of people seem to come to grief using those...
 

CyrusWuff

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I know for Staff Travel Cards (aka "boxes"), ticket examiners (regardless of actual job title) are supposed to cancel the next available box and make the passenger date another one.

I don't think any guidance is published in respect of flexi rovers though.
 

158801

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MONDAY:-
Passenger shows me his flexi rover with undated boxes. MJ explain to him that he needs to date them before travel.

TUESDAY:-
Same passenger, same train, same rover. Shill no date had been input. So I cancelled the next box and dated the following one :D
 

crehld

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Forgetting to fill in the boxes happens as I found out myself this morning. I forgot to put today's date in my 3 in 7 East Midlands rover. I only realized after I took the ticket out of my wallet for a ticket inspection.

Crisis was averted by fessing up to say I'd forgotten to fill it in. I then asked to borrow the guard's pen, which was duly handed over, and I filled the date in. Common sense all round. (I'll qualify this to say this was the first train of the day where the rover was valid and that yesterday's date was in the previous set of boxes, so it should have been clear I wasn't trying it on!).

Dare I mention the fact that only a couple of guards have actually bothered to check the date boxes anyway after two days' of travelling...
 
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brompton rail

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Under BR I used a 7 day All Line Rover on an East Coast train from Edinburgh to Doncaster. The ticket inspector said it wasn't valid as I hadn't put the date in the boxes on the rear. Pointing out that there were insufficient boxes to fill in 7 dates and that anyway the ticket was valid for a straight seven days and this was the final day, seemed to rub him up the wrong way, therefore I obliged by putting the date in the first box.
 

Mag_seven

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As someone who regularly checks tickets, sometimes people 'forget' to write the dates in their rover tickets.

What's the correct procedure for dealing with this? Write the date in? Void a day?

What do other guards/TEs/RPIs do?

Are you not slightly bothered that you have not been trained as to what to do in such a situation?
 

Harpers Tate

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Whenever I have had a flexi-rover, at no time EVER has the procedure required of me been communicated. It's not in the brochure, and issuers never mention it.

It's entirely plausible that a first-time user of these does not know the function of the boxes. Yes, it's obvious to those who do know - and staff will be familiar with the similar approach on free passes etc., but those who do not know might easily believe (as they have not been told otherwise, remember) these are for completion by staff - just like a ticket hole punch, its more modern ink-based equivalent or, indeed, the low-tech ballpoint scribble which is fairly common.
 

221129

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MONDAY:-
Passenger shows me his flexi rover with undated boxes. MJ explain to him that he needs to date them before travel.

TUESDAY:-
Same passenger, same train, same rover. Shill no date had been input. So I cancelled the next box and dated the following one :D

Is that the official policy is it?
 

RJ

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In these parts where flexi-rovers aren't valid for miles, when purchased they print out without any boxes anyway. How would you handle an undated flexi rover which has no boxes to date? I gather the machines are after some prehistoric stock which has them pre-printed.
 

Merseysider

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In these parts where flexi-rovers aren't valid for miles, when purchased they print out without any boxes anyway. How would you handle an undated flexi rover which has no boxes to date? I gather the machines are after some prehistoric stock which has them pre-printed.

Squeezing the date into the endorsements box would probably be better than nothing. Some rovers/rangers do have dedicated stock which they're supposed to be printed on rather than the standard ticket
 

323235

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Is it not the case with Carnet tickets that if you don't date them they aren't valid and you would be reported for a TI?

Surely the same policy should apply to Rovers if we were talking consistency.

Although the issue with rovers are they aren't used by regular commuters and as highlighted no one sets the rules to staff and therefore not all passengers are aware or told that they have to date them and not all staff know to check the date boxes
 

bb21

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In these parts where flexi-rovers aren't valid for miles, when purchased they print out without any boxes anyway. How would you handle an undated flexi rover which has no boxes to date? I gather the machines are after some prehistoric stock which has them pre-printed.

TIR.

I thought you knew that. ;)

Whenever I have had a flexi-rover, at no time EVER has the procedure required of me been communicated. It's not in the brochure, and issuers never mention it.

It's entirely plausible that a first-time user of these does not know the function of the boxes. Yes, it's obvious to those who do know - and staff will be familiar with the similar approach on free passes etc., but those who do not know might easily believe (as they have not been told otherwise, remember) these are for completion by staff - just like a ticket hole punch, its more modern ink-based equivalent or, indeed, the low-tech ballpoint scribble which is fairly common.

I suspect the overwhelming majority of users know how to use the boxes.

Yes, it is possible that innocent first-time users may get caught unawares, which is why I think kwvr45's approach is a good one.

If caught a second time, cancelling one and dating the next seems to be common practice on the network where boxes are concerned. It could do with pinning down officially for Rover tickets and being more widely publicised.
 

Delta558

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Forgetting to fill in the boxes happens as I found out myself this morning. I forgot to put today's date in my 3 in 7 East Midlands rover. I only realized after I took the ticket out of my wallet for a ticket inspection.

Crisis was averted by fessing up to say I'd forgotten to fill it in. I then asked to borrow the guard's pen, which was duly handed over, and I filled the date in. Common sense all round. (I'll qualify this to say this was the first train of the day where the rover was valid and that yesterday's date was in the previous set of boxes, so it should have been clear I wasn't trying it on!).

Glad it worked out okay for you, but your 'fessing up' is actually the only excuse I've ever heard for not dating the boxes! As you mention, it was fairly clear from the fact that you had already dated at least one previous box that you weren't trying it on and I would probably have not made a fuss over it either BUT: It's still you, it's later in the day, it's your first day travelling and you make that mistake. You ask for a pen, I glance at your ticket and the alarm bells start ringing.

Having to make that judgement then based purely on the person sat in front of me is a difficult one (bear in mind that in my career I have had more verbal abuse from people wearing suits, commuting and holidaying than I have from the jeans and T-shirt, drunk and druggie brigade:lol:). Having to make it based on ticketing rules is simple. Unfortunately, that is possibly one of the reasons that comon sense is often not applied with ticketing.
 

87electric

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Forgetting to fill in the boxes happens as I found out myself this morning. I forgot to put today's date in my 3 in 7 East Midlands rover. I only realized after I took the ticket out of my wallet for a ticket inspection.

Crisis was averted by fessing up to say I'd forgotten to fill it in. I then asked to borrow the guard's pen, which was duly handed over, and I filled the date in. Common sense all round. (I'll qualify this to say this was the first train of the day where the rover was valid and that yesterday's date was in the previous set of boxes, so it should have been clear I wasn't trying it on!).

Dare I mention the fact that only a couple of guards have actually bothered to check the date boxes anyway after two days' of travelling...


I forgot to date my last box of a Benelux Inter Rail pass. The Netherlands gripper was adamant he was going to ching me. No goodwill there whatsoever.
Only by producing my Eurostar eticket which I was going to connect onto in a few hours time did I manage to convince him. Not a nice experience.

Always fill in your boxes, wherever you are in the world.
 

crehld

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I forgot to date my last box of a Benelux Inter Rail pass. The Netherlands gripper was adamant he was going to ching me. No goodwill there whatsoever.
Only by producing my Eurostar eticket which I was going to connect onto in a few hours time did I manage to convince him. Not a nice experience.

Always fill in your boxes, wherever you are in the world.
Whereas in Switzerland I was told off for writing dates in my Lac Leman regional pass as it was supposed to be gone by the conductor's stamp!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I gather the machines are after some prehistoric stock which has them pre-printed.

You mean like this?

 
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CyrusWuff

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You mean like this?


Four glaring issues with that ticket:
  • "Spare" boxes not crossed through at time of issue
  • Boxes left blank
  • A date written in red ink instead of black
  • Month written without a 0 for padding
 

Sprinter153

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I normally write the date on and put a note on the front of the ticket which says "Staff : Check date Boxes" or similar to highlight the matter to other staff.

I am aware of many (most) of my colleagues who have not the faintest idea about rover validity and just accept them regardless of what they actually are.

I always find there is an extremely high percentage of passengers who "forget" to put the date on before I see them. I just wish there was a rule that a box gets voided if not dated before travel, like there is with staff travel. If there is such a rule for rovers, I've not found it.

I do this. I have also done a TIR once on an undated rover, after I found the same person a second time after endorsing the ticket having still not dated his box.

It illustrates as well that I always think a Sharpie marker used properly is as effective a revenue protection tool as a Zifa stamper (which can be rubbed off). The howl of derision from some commuters on SORs when you date and headcode their ticket has to be seen to be believed!
 

Delta558

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And what are the specific rules on an undated Rover box? Are they in the public domain?

I think you're misunderstanding my comment - I agree that there does not appear to be any written explanation of how an undated Rover ticket should be dealt with. I was trying to make the point that there is a contrast between how this situation would have to be dealt with and how (for example) an Advance ticket discrepancy is dealt with.

The lack of clarity around it could lead one guard to 'show discretion' and hand over a pen, whilst another may decide to go into a verbal warning about dating boxes before travel. I doubt any would get stroppy enough to suggest that the undated ticket was technically invalid and a new single would have to be purchased, but you never know :lol: There is certainly nothing that I can find in NRE's webpages about undated boxes on Rover tickets, I'll have a look in work when I'm next there to see if I can find anything 'on the system', so to speak.

Take the other extreme from the example I gave previously - it's the final day of a 3 in 7 Rover's validity period, none of the boxes have been dated - the person could have been travelling all day every day for the last seven days and been lucky not to be inspected. OR, they could, through personal circumstances, not been able to use the ticket they had already bought until today and decided to at least get some use out of their wasted money. Either way, they forget to date it before meeting the guard. Now what do you do?
 

CyrusWuff

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Guidance can be found under "Irregular travel and fare evasion" in the Revenue Protecion part of iKB.

If the TE believes it's a genuine mistake, they should get the passenger to fill in the next available box, otherwise they should withdraw the Rover and complete a "Report of Irregular Travelling" and issue a free excess to enable the passenger to complete their journey that day.
 

Sprinter153

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Guidance can be found under "Irregular travel and fare evasion" in the Revenue Protecion part of iKB.

If the TE believes it's a genuine mistake, they should get the passenger to fill in the next available box, otherwise they should withdraw the Rover and complete a "Report of Irregular Travelling" and issue a free excess to enable the passenger to complete their journey that day.

It's a shame that those of us who work on board, at least at my TOC, don't have access to this sort of guidance. I don't even know who I'd see to gain access.

Indeed, my ticket course was two (short) days long. If I relied only on what I'd been taught on that course I'd think that all off peak tickets are only valid after 0930 and excesses didn't exist.
 

sheff1

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Whenever I have had a flexi-rover, at no time EVER has the procedure required of me been communicated. It's not in the brochure, and issuers never mention it.

My experience too. As far as I know, there is nothing in the public domain to say you need to date the tickets at all, never mind whether you should write the date as '2' or '02' or whether the month should be '2', '02' or 'Feb', etc or what colour ink to use.
 
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