Non standard track gauges that were and currently used in the UK

[steamybrian]

Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway - 15inches

 

[randyrippley]

Yes, of course it would.


On a more reasonable tack, anyone mentioned the Lynton & Barnstaple? Originally 1 ft 11 1/4 l believe

Is that because it depended on where 2' was measured from.....rail centre vs inside edge?

 

[eldomtom2]

It has always struck me as a little surprising that the 3ft 6in gauge -- so very widely used on public railways on other continents (and to a less-than-huge extent, on the European continent) -- many of those elsewhere on the planet, in territories of the erstwhile British Empire -- got so extremely little use on public "rail-proper" lines, as opposed to on the tramway scene; in these islands.

I imagine that's because 3ft 6in saw its strongest foothold as a cheaper standard gauge for the colonies; where 4ft 8 1/2in or wider was the standard gauge 3ft 6in wasn't small enough to justify using a non-standard gauge.

 

[Andrew S]

An internal system of 18inch gauge was in use at Crewe railway works - its success brought about a very large installation to the same gauge at Woolwich Arsenal for internal transport as well as an extensive network of standard gauge lines connected to the SE Railway's line at Plumstead.

I believe there are a few remnants of dual gauge track from the Woolwich system, deeply hidden in a plot of land near Thamesmead Morrisons, which is inaccessible and contaminated.

(The land, not Morrisons).

 

[Narrowgauge725]

Huddersfield Tramway system was an unusual gauge of 4ft 7¾ ins the idea being that coal wagons could run on the system, as it happened the built coal trams instead.

 

[randyrippley]

What were the commonest gauges for industrial railways?
I know the system used while building Stocks reservoir in Lancashire was 3', but does anyone know what the in-tunnel track used when the Thirlmere and Haweswater aqueducts were constructed was? Difficult to tell from photos, but it looks like 2'6" or narrower

 

[Sun Chariot]

Ah, a prototype for insulated frog points.

And a worryingly similar finish to my only attempt at hand-built track....

 

[Rescars]

Yes, indeed a very interesting walk.

The Peak Forest Tramway (and other early plateways/waggonways with 'L'-shaped rails and un-flanged wheels) are the key to understanding that the oft-repeated claim that 'standard' gauge was set by the width of a horse's posterior between the shafts is a complete load of rubbish. Although the Peak Forest Tramway was worked by gravitation and cable-hauled inclines in the loaded direction, horses still had to pull 'gangs' of wagons back up the slope. These managed perfectly fine between the gauge of the rails. In fact Benjamin Outram's first waggonway, associated with the Cromford Canal, had a gauge of only 3' 6" and still used horses.

Speaking of plateways, the first public railway, the Surrey Iron Railway was built to a gauge of 4ft 2in; as was its extension - the Croydon, Merstham and Godstone.

 

[32475]

Volks electric railway in Brighton is 2’ 8.5”

 

[richard1976]

The trams in Glasgow were slightly narrower than standard gauge, so wagons could be hauled to certain shipyards with their wheel flanges running in the grooves of the street rails.

Huddersfield also used the same gauge as Glasgow,

 

[Taunton]

Not railways but tramways, As already mentioned 3' 6" was the accepted "narrow gauge"

Generally because it was 75% of Standard Gauge, and became something rolling stock suppliers were familiar with (and had test tracks for). It even facilitated the trading of secondhand rolling stock, just like standard gauge did. It was the norm across most of colonial Africa (although the East African Railways used metre gauge, just a bit narrower). The vast majority of such systems' rolling stock was, until the current generation, built in the UK. I noticed when in Hong Kong that the old tramway there, 3'6" gauge, had stamped on points covers the name of a onetime manufacturer in Sheffield!

Notably when the all-new BART metro system was built in San Francisco in the 1960s-70s, where they treated with disdain established railway procedures and used aerospace industry designers for modernity, they chose a gauge of 5'6", with justifications about stability etc. They never thought that when they looked for track maintenance contractors, none of the national majors in the USA had any equipment for such a gauge, and it all had to be custom manufactured.

 

[6Gman]

Has anyone mentioned the Holyhead Breakwater Railway which was 7' gauge until 1913 (some sources say 1911) ?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Lee Moor Tramway which at 4’6” crossed the GWR mainline at Laira.
Redlake Tramway near Ivybridge was 3’
Bulkamore Tramway near Buckfastleigh was 2’.

 

[Rescars]

Seeing that the OP included the Republic of Ireland, perhaps we should include the Listowel and Ballybunion, but I don't know how to measure the gauge of a Lartigue three-rail monorail.

Anyone got any suggestions?

 

[Pigeon]

Is that because it depended on where 2' was measured from.....rail centre vs inside edge?

It was technically/theoretically 1 foot 11 and five-eighths - which is so nearly exactly 600mm that I can't help thinking that Newnes or one of his pals was an early enthusiast of metrication, or something. Unfortunately nothing I've read seems to even notice this, let alone address it.

People more or less naturally round it to 1 foot 11 and a half, or just 2 foot; I'm not sure if or how far this actually affected the dimensions of the stock and track on the ground due to things being ordered/built using the imperially-rounded figure by people who did not dig the metric roundness. They would after all hardly have noticed the difference.

Measuring between inside edges/centres/outside edges is the origin of one or two lines being quoted as having a funny gauge, but I don't think this is one of them.

Things get a bit uncertain once the gauge gets that small anyway, what with generous track tolerances being used/kept, greater proportionate easing of the gauge being needed on curves, and what have you. As an example the Talyllyn was notionally the same 2'3" gauge as the Corris, but when they bought the ex-Corris locos for use on the Talyllyn they tended to fall down between the rails, the Talyllyn having eased the gauge fairly generally to handle curves better and then compensated for inaccuracy by using wider wheel treads than the Corris did.

 

[mike57]

A few more that I am aware of:

The Colsterdale Light Railway, from Masham to the reservior construction sites further up the valley. 2ft gauge. I lived in that area for many years and wasn't aware of its existance, it closed in 1932 and has just about disappeared from the landscape.

The Sand Hutton Light Railway, started at 15in gauge, later 18in gauge, and extended to around 5 miles I believe. Again closed in 1932 according to Wikipedia.

The Surrey Iron Railway, again passed through the area I grew up in, but no obvious signs of its existance in the area. Not sure if this counts as it was technically a 'plateway', gauge is mentioned as 4ft 2in

 

[Rescars]

The Surrey Iron Railway, again passed through the area I grew up in, but no obvious signs of its existance in the area. Not sure if this counts as it was technically a 'plateway', gauge is mentioned as 4ft 2in

There are some remnants of the route of the Croydon, Merstham and Godstone which are still traceable. At one stage there were some very short sections of track which were preserved in Purley and Merstham. Does anyone know if they are still there? The section of SIR track that was preserved next to Wallington library is long gone.

 

[PeterC]

3' 6" was a popular one for plateways with the Severn and Wye's extensive system in the Forest of Dean as well as the lengthy tramroads to Hay and Hereford from the Monmouth and Brecon canal and the Gloucester and Cheltenham Tramroad.

I have always thought that if Stephenson had been from Gloucester then 3'6" would have been standard.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Measuring between inside edges/centres/outside edges is the origin of one or two lines being quoted as having a funny gauge, but I don't think this is one of them.

Measuring between the centres of the rails is said to be the origin of "Italian metre gauge" (950mm gauge).

Italian law has defined its track gauges in terms of the distance between the centres of each rail,[1] rather than the inside edges of the rails, giving some unusual measurements. According to the law of 28 July 1879, the only legal gauges in Italy were 1,500 mm (4 ft 11+1⁄16 in), 1,000 mm (3 ft 3+3⁄8 in), measured between the rail centres, which correspond to 1,445 mm (4 ft 8+7⁄8 in) and 950 mm (3 ft 1+3⁄8 in) between the rail inside edges.

Track gauge in Italy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dr Hoo]

It was technically/theoretically 1 foot 11 and five-eighths - which is so nearly exactly 600mm that I can't help thinking that Newnes or one of his pals was an early enthusiast of metrication, or something. Unfortunately nothing I've read seems to even notice this, let alone address it.

I don’t think that Newnes was a great metricator. His first essay into ‘railways’ was the Matlock Cable Tramway, which was standard gauge.
His Lynton & Lynmouth funicular was 3’ 8” gauge.
I’ve heard it suggested that the Lynton & Barnstaple was based on the established Ffestiniog. There have been suggestions that after seeing the Leek & Manifold’ transporter wagons he wished that he’d gone for a slightly larger track and loading gauge.

 

[341o2]

Glyn Valley Tramway 2'4 1/2" (already mentioned)
Seaton tramway 2'9"
Wellingborough tramway one metre and 2'4"

The clay lines in Purbeck were originally 2ft 8in, another obscure one, though the last survivor was regauged to 2ft.

The Furzebrook railway was always 2' 8". It was Fayle's tramway, Norden which was regauged to 2'. Previously quoted as 3'9", but may be 3'6"

 

[SargeNpton]

The Northampton tram system (1881-1934) was 3' 6". The only remaining visible parts of that being two tram stops and these tracks inside the old tram shed - which became the Northampton Corporation bus garage...

 

[Shimbleshanks]

There are some remnants of the route of the Croydon, Merstham and Godstone which are still traceable. At one stage there were some very short sections of track which were preserved in Purley and Merstham. Does anyone know if they are still there? The section of SIR track that was preserved next to Wallington library is long gone.

The length of track in Purley Rotary Field is still there, but the rails are set to the wrong gauge! (4' 8 1/2" I believe). I'm pretty sure the length in Quality Street, Merstham has gone - I hope into a museum rather than illegal scrap merchants.

 

[Calthrop]

I don’t think that Newnes was a great metricator. His first essay into ‘railways’ was the Matlock Cable Tramway, which was standard gauge.
His Lynton & Lynmouth funicular was 3’ 8” gauge.
I’ve heard it suggested that the Lynton & Barnstaple was based on the established Ffestiniog. There have been suggestions that after seeing the Leek & Manifold’ transporter wagons he wished that he’d gone for a slightly larger track and loading gauge.

I gather that this few inches' track-gauge difference was indeed pretty well crucial, where transporter wagons were concerned. After closure of the Lynton & Barnstaple, one of its transporter wagons was acquired, experimentally, to try out on the not-far-away -- "2ft. gauge" -- Ashover Light Railway: wagon regauged accordingly. Its running on the Ashover, was adjudged to be borderline-unsafe; and the experiment reckoned abortive.

 

[John Luxton]

Many early Scottish railways, including the Glasgow and Garnkirk, Paisley and Renfrew and the Ardrossan and Johnsone were 4ft 6in, sometimes called 'Scotch Gauge'. A few in the Tayside area were 4ft 6-and-a-half. Some railways were originally 5ft 6in - the Dundee and Arbroath (still open) and the Arbroath and Forfar (section through Arbroath still open).

The original Plymouth and Dartmoor Railway (pre GWR Princetown Branch) and the Lee Moor Tramway nearby used 4ft 6in though down in the West Country it was referred to as "Dartmoor Gauge"

 

[341o2]

The Northampton tram system (1881-1934) was 3' 6". The only remaining visible parts of that being two tram stops and these tracks inside the old tram shed - which became the Northampton Corporation bus garage...

Likewise, Bournemouth (and Poole) trams used to be 3' 6", some went to the Llandudno & Colwyn Bay electric Railway, which lasted until the mid 1950s.
Re the transporter wagon, I thought it was ex Leek and Manifold regauged which made it top heavy, and it only did the one trial run when laden. That was more than enough for the crew.

Glasgow Subway 4'
Bankside miniature railway 8 1/4" and elevated, unusual in that 7 1/4" usually laid directly on ground, being the narrowest gauge practical to do this
Exbury Gardens and Fairbourne Railway 12 1/4"

Trying to remember the exact gauge of a miniature railway rescued from a scrapyard consisting of two diesel outline LMS Pacifics. Was the gauge 21"?

Add 20" Great Woburn Railway & North Bay Railway (nr Scarborough)
21" Blackpool Pleasure Beach Railway
1' 10.75" Phenryn Quarry Railway

The Snailbeach Railway was 2' 4", slightly narrower than the Glyn Valley. Two of its locomotives went to the aforesaid line, where they were apparently successful, but a loan of a Glyn Valley locomotive in reverse was not successful,track too tight.

 

[Western 52]

Collieries often had extensive narrow gauge systems, both underground and often on the surface. I think some were about 2ft gauge, but I think there were other gauges too.

What's gauge was the Post Office railway in London?

 

[hexagon789]

What's gauge was the Post Office railway in London?

2ft I believe

 

[Lemmy282]

The site of the tramway museum at Crich in Derbyshire was originally a line built by the Stephenson's in the mid 1800's and ran from Crich to Ambergste. Originally the gauge was 1metre, and is said to be the first metre gauge line in Brigain.

 

[DelW]

What were the commonest gauges for industrial railways?
I know the system used while building Stocks reservoir in Lancashire was 3', but does anyone know what the in-tunnel track used when the Thirlmere and Haweswater aqueducts were constructed was? Difficult to tell from photos, but it looks like 2'6" or narrower

I've mentioned elsewhere on these forums that in the mid 1970s I worked on construction of a new dam for a water supply reservoir. The dam included a tunnel as part of the draw-off system, and the pipework and other equipment in the tunnel was moved into place using a narrow gauge railway operated with battery electric locos. The track was prefabricated panels known as Jubilee track, and I think was either 2' or 1' 11.5" gauge. The track panels were laid on timbers trimmed to the curvature of the tunnel invert (approximately!). The railway equipment belonged to the company and had been used on several previous dams, but that was the last time I knew of it being used.