nOOb to catching trains

[Rocker]

Hi,

I'm a complete nOOb to getting the train. I think Ive only caught the train once in my life.

I'm from Burnley and i want to go to Sheffield this Thursday and return the following day. I heard that if i book the tickets online that they might be cheaper.
So Ive tried to book the tickets online and i just have 2 queries.

First of all, does the saver return only apply for the return journey? As in i can only catch the train on none peak times. I believe the peak times are before 10am and between 5pm and 7pm. I want to return on the following day but i dont know exactly when il be wanting to go back. Will the saver return cover this?

Second of all, there are no direct routes so i have to change once. Burnley to Leeds and Leeds to Sheffield. But yet part way through it says "This ticket is only valid for routes passing through Stockport." Which isnt even on any of the routes between Burnley, Leeds and Sheffield. Does anybody know whats going on there? Might this just be a computer error?

Hope to hear from someone soon.

Rob

 

[1D53]

Journeys between Burnley and Sheffield have two 'routing points' - Stockport or Halifax.

For journeys via Stockport you would probably change at Preston for a train to Stockport then at Stockport for a train to Sheffield.

For trips via Halifax its a train from Burnley to Leeds then another train to Sheffield.

It'd be advisable to go via Halifax both ways as its one less change and a quicker journey - you have to bear in mind that whichever you choose you have to go that route both directions. ie: You cannot go via Stockport on the outbound and via Halifax on the route.

Both have code '8A' for restrictions which is:

Restriction : 8A
Valid as listed below on any
day.


OUTWARD TRAVEL
Valid on any train.

RETURN TRAVEL
Valid on any train.

Hope that helps.

 

[yorkie]

..you have to bear in mind that whichever you choose you have to go that route both directions. ie: You cannot go via Stockport on the outbound and via Halifax on the route....

But you can really, because if you go the other route, you get an Excess fare of £0.00! Both Savers being £20 (without a railcard).

 

[me123]

Basically, you can travel on any train (on or off peak). The saver covers all trains on the return journey anyway, so no need to worry there, but in this case they have specifically allowed it.

Your £20 saver return is available through both Stockport and Leeds, although I'm not sure if they are separate tickets. Via Leeds is much quicker, but if your ticket says Stockport only you'll have to go the long way.

Book specifically tickets via Leeds id your best bet. If they still come through "Stockport only", contact someone as there has probably been an error and they may be able to correct it.

BTW, in this case, your saver ticket can be bought in person which may be more handy in your situation due to the complexities. It's the Advance purchase tickets (which are not available for your journey) that tend to be much, much cheaper online.

 

[1D53]

But you can really, because if you go the other route, you get an Excess fare of £0.00! Both Savers being £20 (without a railcard).

This is true but I was trying to keep it simple

Does seem odd that there is two identical fares and no any permitted. For example if you were to do Burnley - Preston - Piccadilly - Sheffield via New Mills (Northern services) it would clearly be a valid route but there is no ticketing option.

 

[Rocker]

Here in Burnley there is no ticket office or machine. So would the conductor be able to issue tickets for both trains? I definitely want to go for the route that goes to Leeds then Sheffield. Should i assume that the price on the Internet will be the price when i pay for it in person?

 

[Gizmogle]

If your station has no ticket facilities, then explain to the conductor, and he should sell you the appropriate ticket.

 

[me123]

As Gizzy said, you could buy one on the train. They should be able to seel all walk-up fares (inculding savers) to passengers boarding at a station with no ticket facilities available.

According to National Rail Enquiries, though, Burnley Central has a booking office. In theory, if you had time, you could buy one there a few days in advance to ensure that you get the £20 fare. They should sell you it.

If you don't have time to do that, however, buying onboard is your best bet. Remember your rights, though. I have often had problems with guards refusing to give me railcard discounts and so on. You can buy your saver onboard the train from an unmanned station, so insist that he sell you one.

 

[Gizmogle]

I thought the station had to have no ticket facilities what-so-ever or else the guard can refuse to sell you any savers or railcard discounted tickets?

 

[Rocker]

As Gizzy said, you could buy one on the train. They should be able to seel all walk-up fares (inculding savers) to passengers boarding at a station with no ticket facilities available.

According to National Rail Enquiries, though, Burnley Central has a booking office. In theory, if you had time, you could buy one there a few days in advance to ensure that you get the £20 fare. They should sell you it.

If you don't have time to do that, however, buying onboard is your best bet. Remember your rights, though. I have often had problems with guards refusing to give me railcard discounts and so on. You can buy your saver onboard the train from an unmanned station, so insist that he sell you one.

So there is. I always assumed that they wasn't one because of the size of the station.

Cheers for all of your help.

Rob

 

[class 313]

If you don't have time to do that, however, buying onboard is your best bet.

If you want to be fined then yes, that is your best bet!

 

[Death]

Hail!

I thought the station had to have no ticket facilities what-so-ever or else the guard can refuse to sell you any savers or railcard discounted tickets?

That's pretty much the case in my experiences...The only time one can legitimately board a train without a valid ticket and be able to purchase discount tickets is if either:

1. There are no ticket purchasing facilities at the station whatsoever, or
2. All of the ticketing facilities are known to be out of order (I.E: Booking office closed and/or QFMs out of ticket stock etc) at time of travel.

Annoyingly enough (At least here in SWT land) a long queue at the ticket office in itself is often not accepted as a valid reason for boarding a train without a ticket...And even if ye got to the station a reasonable amount of time before departure, ye might find that ye'd only be able to buy standard tickets on-board the train itself, and may even be charged a Penalty Fare in the worst cases! hock:

One technique that I use to avoid problems in such cases - Especially if the ticket office queue is longer than the train's departure time (I don't trust QFMs with banknotes!) - Is to speak with the Guard before boarding, and obtain their permission to purchase a discount ticket on board. Then - Once the train has left the platform - I purchase my discounted ticket from the Guard as soon as he's available to sell me one.
Using this method, I can double-check with the Guard that he'll be willing to sell me the relevant discounted ticket before boarding, and I believe most Guards (Even the stuck-to-the-rulebook ones) will note my clear intention to pay the fare for my journey, thus eliminating the possibility of fare-evasion on my part.

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[me123]

I thought the station had to have no ticket facilities what-so-ever or else the guard can refuse to sell you any savers or railcard discounted tickets?

I know that. However, Blairhill station staff frequently take coffee breaks advising passengers to "buy on board the train". They forget about us railcard holders and thus I don't always get my discount. Sometimes, of course, they accept the "the station was closed" excuse, but a few seem to be a bit more skeptical. I really should report that, though...

 

[yorkie]

According to National Rail Enquiries, though, Burnley Central has a booking office.

It is irrelevant whether or not Burnley Central has ticket issuing facilities, as your journey would start at Burnley Manchester Road.

There's no need to worry, the guard will know there is no ticket office and sell a Saver. In any case, the Saver is the most expensive return ticket available for that journey and is completely unrestricted.

All you need to do is board the train with £20
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know that. However, Blairhill station staff frequently take coffee breaks advising passengers to "buy on board the train". They forget about us railcard holders and thus I don't always get my discount. Sometimes, of course, they accept the "the station was closed" excuse, but a few seem to be a bit more skeptical. I really should report that, though...

Refuse to pay anything more than the fully discounted fare. If they won't issue a discounted fare then do not pay until you reach your destination or interchange point. Also ask them for their name. I have heard asking them for the headcode (or, even better, stating that you know the headcode) may have an effect as well and yes, it needs to be reported. I'd write to FSR firstly, but if they do nothing (which I am sure won't be the case) then there are alternative options...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you want to be fined then yes, that is your best bet!

Don't be daft.

Please, if you do not understand what we are discussing then don't state something as 'fact'.

1) Northern do not do 'fines'
2) The origin station is unstaffed.

'Nuff said. Stop trying to scare people.

 

[me123]

It is irrelevant whether or not Burnley Central has ticket issuing facilities, as your journey would start at Burnley Manchester Road.

There's no need to worry, the guard will know there is no ticket office and sell a Saver. In any case, the Saver is the most expensive return ticket available for that journey and is completely unrestricted.

All you need to do is board the train with £20

Refuse to pay anything more than the fully discounted fare. If they won't issue a discounted fare then do not pay until you reach your destination or interchange point. Also ask them for their name. I have heard asking them for the headcode (or, even better, stating that you know the headcode) may have an effect as well ...

I'm too timid to be authoritative enough I prefer to buy in advance, just to be fully safe. I also like to know I have my tickets before I travel, but that's just me.

 

[Gizmogle]

I'm the same. I wouldn't like to tell a guard that they're wrong, even if they were.

There are many guards out there that really don't know the rules properly though.

 

[djw1981]

I'd also rather use a TVM than a desk if I know what I want. Only use desk if I need a ticket that a TVM can't give me. But that's partly cos I;m in a rush and the queue is shorter and partly because I'm scared of looking stupid in front of the staff. :$

 

[Rocker]

I went to the ticket office today after work at Burnley Central and he wouldn't issue me with a ticket since i would be departing from a different station. He just told me to buy one off the conductor. I couldn't be bothered to argue a ticket out of him as it makes no difference to me.

I suppose it depends how big the guy looked and how p!ssed off he looked too. I wouldn't argue it out with a fella that looks like he would put me in a early grave or actually be able to chuck me off the train.

 

[Gizmogle]

He should be able to issue you a ticket from a different station...

 

[class 313]

Don't be daft.

Please, if you do not understand what we are discussing then don't state something as 'fact'.

1) Northern do not do 'fines'
2) The origin station is unstaffed.

'Nuff said. Stop trying to scare people.

IMO all TOCs should be in the Penalty fare system. But that's just my opinion. Would cut down on the amount of people trying to get away with no ticket. But to be perfectlt honest, I wouldn't wanna risk it, getting on a train with no ticket. If any doubt, buy online?

 

[me123]

I went to the ticket office today after work at Burnley Central and he wouldn't issue me with a ticket since i would be departing from a different station.

He's a liar. I frequently buy tickets at stations in Glasgow for journeys that don't even go anywhere near the city. But, as you say, why bother if they're gonna be awkward.

 

[Gizmogle]

Perfect example of completely moronic ticket sellers.

There's so many around that don't know how to issue slightly more unusual tickets.
There's a woman at Ash Vale who doesn't know anything. It took her about half an hour to issue an ALR. After actually saying that she couldn't do it, being told that she could, and then having to ring for help. She literally needed a step by step guide.

 

[Tom C]

Please, if you do not understand what we are discussing then don't state something as 'fact'.

1) Northern do not do 'fines'
2) The origin station is unstaffed.

Northern don't appear to operate a Penalty Fare scheme, from there website it says the following.........

On some routes we may, introduce a Penalty Fares Scheme. Wherever a penalty fares scheme is in place, there will be ticket machines at stations and customers must buy a ticket or permit to travel before they board the train. If they do not do so, they may have to pay a penalty fare as well as the full fare for the journey they are making.

This says to me that at the moment there isn't one although they may introduce one in the future so its something to watch in the future.

Also even through a station is unmanned, does not mean it isn't part of a Penalty Fare scheme. This is a common misconception that just because a station does not have a booking office it isn't in a PF scheme. On FCC alone West Sutton - Wimbledon Chase, Crews Hill and Bayford stations are all unmanned but are still part of a Penalty Fare scheme.

All that aside, Manchester Road doesn't have any facilities whatsoever (at least it didn't a few months ago) so you can definately buy your ticket on the train.

I know that. However, Blairhill station staff frequently take coffee breaks advising passengers to "buy on board the train".

If you are instructed to buy your ticket on the train then the inspector/conductor MUST abide by that instruction. If you are confronted by this again, my advise would be to ask the person to phone the booking office concerned in order to establish the facts.

There's a woman at Ash Vale who doesn't know anything. It took her about half an hour to issue an ALR. After actually saying that she couldn't do it, being told that she could, and then having to ring for help. She literally needed a step by step guide.

In defense of the clerk, STAR and SHERE did not issue instructions to issue Rail Rovers. APTIS training included selling just about every ticket going including ferries to Ireland, ferries to France, bus links, rovers and reservations. The new machines never included this so unless you are at a large station then its very likely that you will never be SHOWN how to issue a ticket like an All Line Rover. I only found out how to issue it on SHERE by playing around with it when I was bored on a window but believe me for tickets like this it isn't as simple as pressing a few buttons like issuing a single to London.

In summary, the ticket seller isn't "moronic" its SWT and Fujitsu for not ensuring their staff are competant to issue a full range of tickets.

 

[class 313]

Perfect example of completely moronic ticket sellers.

There's so many around that don't know how to issue slightly more unusual tickets.
There's a woman at Ash Vale who doesn't know anything. It took her about half an hour to issue an ALR. After actually saying that she couldn't do it, being told that she could, and then having to ring for help. She literally needed a step by step guide.

Lets be honest, its not everyday she would be asked to issue a ALR is it.

 

[yorkie]

Lets be honest, its not everyday she would be asked to issue a ALR is it.

That's not an excuse though, and she should be able to issue rovers generally, of which ALRs are just a small percentage of the total sold.

The facts are, as Tom C stated, the TOC is at fault for providing insufficient training. Sadly this is more the norm than the exception

 

[class 313]

That's not an excuse though, and she should be able to issue rovers generally, of which ALRs are just a small percentage of the total sold.

The facts are, as Tom C stated, the TOC is at fault for providing insufficient training. Sadly this is more the norm than the exception

I'm sure a TOC would rather concentrate on tickets that are sold much more regularly than tickets that aren't. But yes, I do agree with you about its the TOCs fault for not providing sufficient training.

 

[Nick W]

I went to the ticket office today after work at Burnley Central and he wouldn't issue me with a ticket since i would be departing from a different station. He just told me to buy one off the conductor. I couldn't be bothered to argue a ticket out of him as it makes no difference to me.

That's a great shame, but I suppose he was too lazy to go through the steps required to issue from a different station. If I'd gone out of my way to get to the station I'd personally write a nice letter to the train company.

Unfortunately a lot of ticket staff lack training. I've also heard of ticket staff going against the rules to save people money so there are good eggs and bad eggs. One patient ticket seller inserted a via I suggested to see if it was any cheaper, despite not expecting it to be, and to his surprised it turned out to be cheaper. I doubt many customers go via odd routes to save money so he wasn't expected to know this, but he went along with my request.

I suppose it depends how big the guy looked and how p!ssed off he looked too. I wouldn't argue it out with a fella that looks like he would put me in a early grave or actually be able to chuck me off the train.

No rail staff is going to be violent as they'd lose their job. They will never use force to chuck you off. If you refuse to comply because you know you're in the right, they can either give in or call BTP (transport police).