Senex said: ↑
And the 185s have been totally inadequate for the job from the day they appeared since London-DfT didn't allow four vehicles per unit to be ordered at the start and then wouldn't allow later construction of the additional vehicles. And on significant parts of the TP network they are not allowed to run at DMU speeds—brilliant procurement.
AOwen replied:
None of which are the fault of the units - which are decent quality long distance DMUs.
Senex said: ↑
As for the 350/4s, outer suburban stock acquired for an inter-city route. Compare with Voyagers for Leeds to Scotland or Pendolinos/Voyagers for Birmingham to Scotland.
AOwen replied:
They are 2+2 seated stock. So the only thing you're complaining about is 1/3 2/3 doors rather than doors at each end. That's just plain daft. The 350s are used for various medium distance routes without issue.
Senex said: ↑
Just one line actually being done at present, the 25 miles from Manchester to Euxton Jn, some 40 years later than first planned and at a snail's pace. No particularly good timings promised on completion. Stalybridge stopped, ultra-wierd plans rumoured for the continuation to Leeds if it ever gets done at all, no progress on tne other route to Wigan. Liverpool to Manchester done indeed, again some 40 years after it was first planned, but doesn't make as much sense as it would have done if Leeds had been done and somewhat disappointing on the infrastructure side. And the rolling stock provided is the aged non-air-conditioned 319s witn minimal refurbishment.
AOwen replied:
The 319s are fit for purpose for upgrading Manchester - Liverpool services. And they are available now, which new stock wouldn't be.
Senex said: ↑
True, but much of the aged Southern stock was electric, which ages very much better than the diesel rattletraps we've got in the north.
AOwen replied:
Hang on a sec - not a moment ago you were complaining about 20 year old EMUs making their way north, now you're saying it was alright for the south to be using 20 year old EMUs when the Sprinters etc were being rolled out.....
Senex said: ↑
And then, of course, there's the minimalist Manchester "sollution" of the Ordsall Chord (without any promises of the accompanying works at Piccadilly and Oxford Road. Compare the £85 million for that with the billions for Crossrail I, let alone add in Crossrail II. (And compare it against various cross-city links in Europe, the most recent being in Leipzig, a city in many ways very comparable to Manchester.)
AOwen replied:
London is a city of 10m people, Manchester is 2.5m.
The Central line - the one true 'east to west' line through central London is at capacity - which is what Crossrail will deal with. London has had minimal new rail lines in the last 30 years given the volume of traffic it handles.
And the 185s have been totally inadequate for the job from the day they appeared since London-DfT didn't allow four vehicles per unit to be ordered at the start and then wouldn't allow later construction of the additional vehicles. And on significant parts of the TP network they are not allowed to run at DMU speeds—brilliant procurement.
AOwen replied:
None of which are the fault of the units - which are decent quality long distance DMUs.
Senex said: ↑
As for the 350/4s, outer suburban stock acquired for an inter-city route. Compare with Voyagers for Leeds to Scotland or Pendolinos/Voyagers for Birmingham to Scotland.
AOwen replied:
They are 2+2 seated stock. So the only thing you're complaining about is 1/3 2/3 doors rather than doors at each end. That's just plain daft. The 350s are used for various medium distance routes without issue.
Senex said: ↑
Just one line actually being done at present, the 25 miles from Manchester to Euxton Jn, some 40 years later than first planned and at a snail's pace. No particularly good timings promised on completion. Stalybridge stopped, ultra-wierd plans rumoured for the continuation to Leeds if it ever gets done at all, no progress on tne other route to Wigan. Liverpool to Manchester done indeed, again some 40 years after it was first planned, but doesn't make as much sense as it would have done if Leeds had been done and somewhat disappointing on the infrastructure side. And the rolling stock provided is the aged non-air-conditioned 319s witn minimal refurbishment.
AOwen replied:
The 319s are fit for purpose for upgrading Manchester - Liverpool services. And they are available now, which new stock wouldn't be.
Senex said: ↑
True, but much of the aged Southern stock was electric, which ages very much better than the diesel rattletraps we've got in the north.
AOwen replied:
Hang on a sec - not a moment ago you were complaining about 20 year old EMUs making their way north, now you're saying it was alright for the south to be using 20 year old EMUs when the Sprinters etc were being rolled out.....
Senex said: ↑
And then, of course, there's the minimalist Manchester "sollution" of the Ordsall Chord (without any promises of the accompanying works at Piccadilly and Oxford Road. Compare the £85 million for that with the billions for Crossrail I, let alone add in Crossrail II. (And compare it against various cross-city links in Europe, the most recent being in Leipzig, a city in many ways very comparable to Manchester.)
AOwen replied:
London is a city of 10m people, Manchester is 2.5m.
The Central line - the one true 'east to west' line through central London is at capacity - which is what Crossrail will deal with. London has had minimal new rail lines in the last 30 years given the volume of traffic it handles.
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