North Wales Coast Sunday overcrowding

[Bletchleyite]

As well as the Conwy Valley I (obviously, to get to it ) used the North Wales Coast this weekend.

On Sunday, as usual, there was severe overcrowding, with only 1tph operating and almost all with single 197s. These to be fair are much better than 158s and 175s if you need to cram people in, but this situation is entirely predictable and has been going on for years if it's a nice day.

Are there any plans to increase Sundays to the more usual 2tph (Manchester-Llandudno and Holyhead-wherever) or even the eventual 3 when the Liverpool extends? Or at least get some more units out and run 4-6 car trains? There is clearly the demand. Or is this mostly due to the 197 shortages? (It did claim on Realtime Trains that the train I took, the 1620ish Llandudno Jn to Crewe, should "gain coaches" at Llandudno Jn, but it in fact didn't and the stop wasn't really long enough for it to do so).

Any thoughts on how this should be managed? It's clearly a very big problem with the heavy tourist use of the line (and also luggage that goes with those tourists, though 197s at least have big overheads).

 

[styles]

It's been like this for years. I regularly get the train to Shotton to visit family and those 2-car Holyhead to Manchester trains are almost always packed, even out of holiday season. During the summer you're having to politely encourage people to stand further down the carriages, like commuters trying to get on the Piccadilly westbound as King's Cross St Pancras, battling suitcases and holdalls.

I've always thought the solution to simply be bigger sets. Yes some of the stations have short platforms, but they manage to communicate this to passengers on 4-car seats to/from Brum.

 

[amahy]

TfW really do need to get their act together with trains outside the Cardiff area. While south wales gets a complete revamp and very nice Stadler trains, everywhere else just got whatever cr*p the 197s are, which are in some ways worse than the trains they replaced.

You would think that on Sundays, as TOCs run less services, those that do run would be formed of longer trains, however the opposite seems to be the case (I’ve experienced this on Northern as well as TfW).

 

[CharlieSpotted]

And meanwhile, TfW continue to send 2 car trains to Birmingham, to serve a major city and an international airport, on a (sunny, pay weekend) Saturday...

 

[Bletchleyite]

TfW really do need to get their act together with trains outside the Cardiff area. While south wales gets a complete revamp and very nice Stadler trains, everywhere else just got whatever cr*p the 197s are, which are in some ways worse than the trains they replaced.

I don't think they're cr*p at all, they're much better suited to the mixed nature of the traffic on the route than anything with end doors, and the windows are nice and big for the scenery - probably the best thing the Conwy Valley has ever had. But really with only 1tph on Sundays you need to be running everything at a minimum of 5-car, ideally 6. And much as I enjoyed a nice single seat in Standard+ (I got on quick!) I think it'd make sense to make sure as far as possible it's all-Standard sets to maximise seating.

The units do have ASDO so short platforms aren't an issue (e.g. at Dolgarrog only 3 sets of doors are opened, the last set is not, and the automatic announcements do advertise this).

 

[amahy]

I don't think they're cr*p at all, they're much better suited to the mixed nature of the traffic on the route than anything with end doors, and the windows are nice and big for the scenery - probably the best thing the Conwy Valley has ever had. But really with only 1tph on Sundays you need to be running everything at a minimum of 5-car, ideally 6. And much as I enjoyed a nice single seat in Standard+ (I got on quick!) I think it'd make sense to make sure as far as possible it's all-Standard sets to maximise seating.

The units do have ASDO so short platforms aren't an issue (e.g. at Dolgarrog only 3 sets of doors are opened, the last set is not, and the automatic announcements do advertise this).

I’d much rather get a 150 than a 197 on Conwy Valley any day, mainly due to the overly bright lights and non functional air-con. Even when it is working, it’s turned up too high.

 

[Anonymous10]

I’d much rather get a 150 than a 197 on Conwy Valley any day, mainly due to the overly bright lights and non functional air-con. Even when it is working, it’s turned up too high.

You won't be getting a 150 up there anymore, as Traction knowledge has lapsed if I recall correctly from a previous post.

The main issue i think is 197s are working the Maesteg and Ebbw Vale services which they were never intended for. Added to this some unreliability and I wonder if the fleet is a little too small to cover its own diagrams, without doubling up formations on the North Wales main line (which is really needed). It is a similar story with services west of Cardiff with many being 2 cars, which again isn't enough. It really needs to be 3 at a minimum as far as Carmarthen and I do wonder if the 197s would have been better build as 3 car units. But that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’d much rather get a 150 than a 197 on Conwy Valley any day, mainly due to the overly bright lights and non functional air-con. Even when it is working, it’s turned up too high.

You'd rather have a unit on which you can barely see out of the windows at all on probably the most scenic line in the UK? Each to their own, but really?

As for the aircon, put your coat on. (I'd agree it's a bit cold on some 197s, but I did exactly that).

 

[amahy]

You'd rather have a unit on which you can barely see out of the windows at all on probably the most scenic line in the UK? Each to their own, but really?

As for the aircon, put your coat on. (I'd agree it's a bit cold on some 197s, but I did exactly that).

To be fair, it wasn’t the window size on 150s that was the issue, it was the fact they weren’t clean, in my experience anyway!

As for the aircon, for me it’s always the opposite problem, especially in the Summer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair, it wasn’t the window size on 150s that was the issue, it was the fact they weren’t clean, in my experience anyway!

That's one issue, but original layout 150/1s had no seats window-aligned. I suppose the TfW variant at least had some.

 

[Topological]

TfW would really benefit from more 197s, but unlikely to happen.

Things are much better on the Marches now the 197s are bedding in, but there are still too many 197s covering other duties (including covering for the Mk4s) and the decision to use a depot which is too small (Chester) has not helped either.

 

[SeanG]

37s and Mk2s anyone?