North Wales into Liverpool gains Ministerial support

[Michael.Y]

Are you suggesting that the WAG member for Anglesey was spending this money to placate the Plaid voters?

It was a manifesto commitment :

A Plaid Cymru Government will:
• Prioritise creating better links, both road and rail, from the North, the West and the South Wales Valleys to Cardiff.
• Continue to support the restoration of full public ownership of the rail system.

As Plaid went into coalition govt from 2007-2011, and as Plaid support is mostly in the North and West, this manifesto commitment appears to have been delivered, for the North at least.

 

[merlodlliw]

It was a manifesto commitment :

A Plaid Cymru Government will:
• Prioritise creating better links, both road and rail, from the North, the West and the South Wales Valleys to Cardiff.
• Continue to support the restoration of full public ownership of the rail system.

As Plaid went into coalition govt from 2007-2011, and as Plaid support is mostly in the North and West, this manifesto commitment appears to have been delivered, for the North at least.

What date is that manefesto, would it be 2011 out of interest?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

It was a manifesto commitment :

A Plaid Cymru Government will:
• Prioritise creating better links, both road and rail, from the North, the West and the South Wales Valleys to Cardiff.
• Continue to support the restoration of full public ownership of the rail system.

The first part has been Plaid policy since, at least, 1975. The second part is self evident since Plaid was always against 'privatisation' of the railways.

 

[merlodlliw]

The first part has been Plaid policy since, at least, 1975. The second part is self evident since Plaid was always against 'privatisation' of the railways.

Thats not answering the statement put up by Michael Y,no matter how it may be addressed by yourself, was that manefesto put up by Michael dated for the 2011 WAG election.
I asked a simple question, also we must remember the mods dislike too much politics on RF.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Thats not answering the statement put up by Michael Y,no matter how it may be addressed by yourself, was that manefesto put up by Michael dated for the 2011 WAG election.
I asked a simple question, also we must remember the mods dislike too much politics on RF.

Try this. Pages 25 and 26.

http://www.english.plaidcymru.org/uploads/Manifesto_2011/Main_maniffesto_English_SP.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thats not answering the statement put up by Michael Y,no matter how it may be addressed by yourself, was that manefesto put up by Michael dated for the 2011 WAG election.
I asked a simple question, also we must remember the mods dislike too much politics on RF.

And this from the 2007 Manifesto ........

'Our vision for a modern all-Wales transport system will unite the nation and promote more equitable economic prosperity.

Creating better links, both road and rail, from the North, the West and the South Wales Valleys to Cardiff will be a priority. We are committed to reopening a limited number of railway lines and to dual track single lines.

We will draw up a firm programme to upgrade North/West - South road links to be completed by 2015. We will create a fast, convenient national long distance express coach service, well integrated with feeder rail and local bus services.

We will re-regulate buses and establish a new national transport authority, setting fares, routes and timetables, so that services run where people want them, not where the greatest profit is to be made. We will continue to support the restoration of full public ownership of the rail system.'

 

[merlodlliw]

Thanks Gwenllian , but a yes or no would have sufficed.

 

[jones_bangor]

I asked a simple question, also we must remember the mods dislike too much politics on RF.

Of course, it would never be like you to bring politics into it!!

 

[merlodlliw]

Of course, it would never be like you to bring politics into it!!

Of course not

 

[6Gman]

When the LMR took over the Cambrian, it was managed from Stoke on Trent; went downhill rapidly and for years passengers were stuck for hours on suburban DMUs more suitable for inner city services. It wasn't until the regions were abolished that things improved.

I don't recall ever travelling on a suburban DMU on the Cambrian under BR. Generally it would be a standard low-density unit (either Met Camm or Park Royal), similar to those used on similar lines all over Britain. Cross-Country units would have been nice, and I seem to recall they were sometimes used to Aberystwyth, but not generally on the Coast.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I don't recall ever travelling on a suburban DMU on the Cambrian under BR. Generally it would be a standard low-density unit (either Met Camm or Park Royal), similar to those used on similar lines all over Britain. Cross-Country units would have been nice, and I seem to recall they were sometimes used to Aberystwyth, but not generally on the Coast.

You are quite correct. What I meant to say was that they were more suitable for suburban use, being generally run down and draughty.

 

[Michael.Y]

A little joined up thinking would naturally enable you to realise that those passages I posted were from the 2007 Manifesto, in which Plaid won enough seats to be invited into coalition with Labour, and when IWJ became transport minister.

It wouldn't be from the 2011 Manifesto because Plaid lost that election and as such have no influence on current transport policy.

 

[merlodlliw]

A little joined up thinking would naturally enable you to realise that those passages I posted were from the 2007 Manifesto, in which Plaid won enough seats to be invited into coalition with Labour, and when IWJ became transport minister.

It wouldn't be from the 2011 Manifesto because Plaid lost that election and as such have no influence on current transport policy.

Ok,I just wondered, as Plaid in the 2011 election came third behind the Tories,but that's all behind us now remarked Lord Ellis Thomas last week.
I was of course unaware of the date of the manifesto you put up, now I know.

Bob

 

[tbtc]

It is interesting that the heading of this thread gives a somewhat disingenuous impression of what the Minister's intentions or, more like wishes, may be. I quote:

Mr Sargeant was already working with Network Rail over future investments for improvements across Wales.
“I want to see North Wales properly connected to the electric network around Liverpool,” he said.

As a politician, he can say anything. He has an electorate to placate. He is, in fact, far more interested in road improvements and is quite happy to commit millions to widening the 'Heads of the Valleys Road' while the Ebbw Vale Line remains unfinished.

He has no option but to work with Network Rail. He has very little say in the matter. I don't care what political party he belongs to but bull**** is the same in any language.

Try this. Pages 25 and 26.

http://www.english.plaidcymru.org/uploads/Manifesto_2011/Main_maniffesto_English_SP.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


And this from the 2007 Manifesto ........

'Our vision for a modern all-Wales transport system will unite the nation and promote more equitable economic prosperity.

Creating better links, both road and rail, from the North, the West and the South Wales Valleys to Cardiff will be a priority. We are committed to reopening a limited number of railway lines and to dual track single lines.

We will draw up a firm programme to upgrade North/West - South road links to be completed by 2015. We will create a fast, convenient national long distance express coach service, well integrated with feeder rail and local bus services.

We will re-regulate buses and establish a new national transport authority, setting fares, routes and timetables, so that services run where people want them, not where the greatest profit is to be made. We will continue to support the restoration of full public ownership of the rail system.'

So when one politician says that he wants one improvement (a better train service from North Wales to Liverpool) then he's damned for "bull...", yet a different political party can put a huge wishlist in their manifesto (basically "better links from everywhere in Wales to Cardiff by rail and by road, re-opening railways and doubling others - plus finding the money to nationalise all Welsh railways too" yet you don't seem to think this is hot air intended to placate an electorate?

Is that not a little biased?

And I still don't understand why WAG1 and WAG2 needed introducing from Holyhead to Cardiff since there was already a train every couple of hours - as well as daily flights from Anglesey - was this really a priority for any political party (when plenty of other direct links didn't exist)?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Ok,I just wondered, as Plaid in the 2011 election came third behind the Tories,but that's all behind us now remarked Lord Ellis Thomas last week.
I was of course unaware of the date of the manifesto you put up, now I know.
Bob

Stop playing politics. It is of no importance where Plaid Cymru came in the last election. You asked for asked a question and it has been answered. You could have used Google like everyone else.

 

[merlodlliw]

Stop playing politics. It is of no importance where Plaid Cymru came in the last election. You asked for asked a question and it has been answered. You could have used Google like everyone else.

I asked Michael the question,he answered, satisfy s me.

Bob

 

[transmanche]

I don't recall ever travelling on a suburban DMU on the Cambrian under BR.

I do. Class 150 Sprinters - which are to my mind suburban units. In fact wasn't the Cambrian one of the first routes to get the Sprinters when new?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

So when one politician says that he wants one improvement (a better train service from North Wales to Liverpool) then he's damned for "bull...", yet a different political party can put a huge wishlist in their manifesto (basically "better links from everywhere in Wales to Cardiff by rail and by road, re-opening railways and doubling others - plus finding the money to nationalise all Welsh railways too" yet you don't seem to think this is hot air intended to placate an electorate?

Is that not a little biased?

Not biased at all. All political parties have 'wish lists' that they place in their manifesto. By this, they hope to gather votes. The 'One Wales' programme, which saw a coalition between Labour and Plaid, delivered on some of those wishes. Better North - South Links; reopening of the line to Ebbw Vale and the rebuilding of Fishguard and Goodwick together with an extra five local trains. In fact, the last administration was very rail minded. So far, this administration seems to be much more interested in roads.

There is a world of difference between an opposition floating ideas than an elected Minister's vague reference to some future service to Liverpool. My local MP has a habit of putting out statements to the local press on matters which do not concern him, such as Health and Education but they still get printed and it appears to a gullible electorate that he is beavering away on their behalf. The service to Liverpool would be 'a nice to have' but until I see some concrete proposals, I doubt that anything will happen. Remember John Prescott's pledge that there would be a publicly owned and accountable railway while Tony Blair and the rest applauded him.

As things stand, it's not too arduous to travel to Liverpool from north east Wales with four trains an hour from Chester. I live at Maesteg where it is not possible to arrive in Cardiff before 0848, too late for anyone employed in anything but a nine till five job. The next train doesn’t get there until 1007 which makes it virtually useless for commuting. Welsh National Opera; A Concert at St David’s Hall or the Millennium Centre? Forget it, the last train home on Saturday leaves at 2110.

Those of us who can be bothered to vote will have our own preferences and sometimes we make the wrong choice, even if we diligently read the programme put out by each party. But then we have the chance to boot them out, next time around, if they don't come up to scratch. What matters, I suppose, to most contributors to this forum is how a government conducts itself towards the railways, whatever its makeup.

If I am biased, it's towards rail transport having spent my working life in the industry.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do. Class 150 Sprinters - which are to my mind suburban units. In fact wasn't the Cambrian one of the first routes to get the Sprinters when new?

Agreed but that was after the regions were abolished.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Something of interest in today's Runcorn Weekly News. The chemical giant Ineos is building a large power station fuelled on refuse. The original plan was for most of the fuel to be brought via rail. The plan has been revised to burn much more fuel than was originally intended and Ineos put in plans to have this extra fuel brought in by road. A local campaign group is up in arms about this. The local campaign group are supporting the full reopening of the Halton Curve to transport the fuel and this is now being considered by Ineos. Could the Curve be reopened for freight with passenger services following on?

http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklyne...n-halton-curve-rail-line-push-55368-31471881/

 

[Holly]

Something of interest in today's Runcorn Weekly News. The chemical giant Ineos is building a large power station fuelled on refuse. ...
http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklyne...n-halton-curve-rail-line-push-55368-31471881/

Since it is in Weston Point then only 1.8km (1.1 miles) of wrong road running would be needed to accommodate these freight trains. Presumably, since they are non-perishable freight, they can be scheduled for off hours and run with Halton Curve as it presently stands and without full reinstatement.

Which is both good and bad.

 

[John55]

Since it is in Weston Point then only 1.8km (1.1 miles) of wrong road running would be needed to accommodate these freight trains. Presumably, since they are non-perishable freight, they can be scheduled for off hours and run with Halton Curve as it presently stands and without full reinstatement.

Which is both good and bad.

Is this incinerator still for burning the waste from Greater Manchester or are other areas involved now? If from GM there doesn't seem any reason to use Halton Curve but if fuel/material from Wirral or Wales is involved it would be different.

Is unsignalled wrong line working allowed on the main line for distances of >1 mile? Runcorn to Halton Junction isn't the quietest line to try this kind of irregular activity.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Is this incinerator still for burning the waste from Greater Manchester or are other areas involved now? If from GM there doesn't seem any reason to use Halton Curve but if fuel/material from Wirral or Wales is involved it would be different.

Is unsignalled wrong line working allowed on the main line for distances of >1 mile? Runcorn to Halton Junction isn't the quietest line to try this kind of irregular activity.

Perhaps Ineos, if it considers it a viable option, will chip in to have it fully reinstated?

 

[pemma]

Is this incinerator still for burning the waste from Greater Manchester or are other areas involved now? If from GM there doesn't seem any reason to use Halton Curve

Indeed. In their future planning TfGM have looked at alternative routes for the waste trains and they don't involve the Halton curve.

 

[Penmorfa]

Since it is in Weston Point then only 1.8km (1.1 miles) of wrong road running would be needed to accommodate these freight trains. Presumably, since they are non-perishable freight, they can be scheduled for off hours and run with Halton Curve as it presently stands and without full reinstatement.

Which is both good and bad.

It would be a lot more than 1.8Km as wrong line running would end at Helsby. But it hardly seems necessary, loaded trains could travel to Weston Point via Halton Curve, empty trains would run via Hartford Jct and Northwich (run round) then on to Chester.