North Wales man who climbed on train coupling fined

[merlodlliw]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...imbed-on-train-coupling-fined-55578-29817529/

put up for interest


Bob

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The North Wales coast line seems to have a particular problem with strange behavioural activities of certain of its residents, as reports such as this are not uncommon and have been posted on this forum quite often. It is not all that long ago when a man was stated to be causing havoc on a train with the rail staff and the passengers, not at night when it unfortunately might have been expected, but in the early morning :roll:

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not convinced that it has any worse propblems than other parts of the country, in fact, i think it might have less bizarre behaviour leading to incidents actually being reported and then Bob relaying the news to us.

 

[Yew]

The fine is still cheaper than some anytime singles

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Smith, who is on benefits and has three children, had a row with his partner and then went out for a drink with his brother.

Anybody who comes before the courts for this sort of behaviour should have their benefits stopped.

How about going to look for a job instead of going on the raz.

With the current system you guys have - and indeed we have in Ireland - there is no incentive for these chavs to go out and work. Why would you.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Anybody who comes before the courts for this sort of behaviour should have their benefits stopped.

Why punish his family for something he's done?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Why punish his family for something he's done?

While i agree with you, probably to try and stop him doing it again. However it isn't fair and i don't think it should be done.

 

[brad465]

Why punish his family for something he's done?

If he's on more than just child benefit then he could have benefits for his purpose only cut

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If he's on more than just child benefit then he could have benefits for his purpose only cut

Do you really think that he'll only spend his benefits on himself? He's got a family to support. By all means punish him - community service might be an idea - but the family have done nothing wrong. They don't deserve to have their lifeline cut.

 

[Old Timer]

Why punish his family for something he's done?

If he had been a working man he could have lost his job, so there is a degree of unfairness.

These people behave exactly as they please because there is NO sanction against them that they care for. I was told only recently that most people who are given community orders or whatever todays term is normally do not serve them and no-one has the time or the money to chase them up. Even if they did they would not be sent to prison, just given a further order which they would ignore and so on and so on.

Its amazxing how they always seem to have money to go drinking whilst I for example have to watch the pennies and I am working and paying a fortune to the UK Revenue for such people to behave as they do.

 

[raildude]

Interesting that he was done for a Byelaw for such an offence though, as well as threatening behaviour (according to the article).

Must be 10(2) or some sort of Byelaw 12 offence:

10(2) No person shall be in or on any train except the parts of it intended for use by that person.

12(2) An authorised person may, in an emergency or in other circumstances in which he believes he should act in the interests of safety, issue instructions to any person on the railway. No person shall, without good cause, disobey such instructions.

I suspect the latter, especially if a load of threatening abuse was then directed to the station staff as a result of receiving an instruction to stop messing about.

Could even be Byelaw 4(1)

4(1) No person shall enter or remain on the railway where such person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway as a result of being in a state of intoxication.

Should have threw the lot at him IMO.

 

[BestWestern]

Do you really think that he'll only spend his benefits on himself? He's got a family to support. By all means punish him - community service might be an idea - but the family have done nothing wrong. They don't deserve to have their lifeline cut.

Sadly, the loss of his 'income' (i.e. drinking money) is highly likely to be the only punishment that would actually carry and level of corrective discipline for people like this. If he really is supporting his family of three children from his benefits, how does he find the surplus to buy excessive amounts of alcohol? And to what degree is he a fit and proper person to be responsible for those children? Will they grow up to be fine upstanding members of society, like their father, I wonder?!

I'm afraid I fail to appreciate in what way throwing taxpayer's money at morons like this is a fair use of scant financial resources, or beneficial to society. Sadly though, it is the liberal and oh-so-'fair' attitudes of those who view this as the correct way forward which sustain our sponger state, and feed and breed the contemptuous individuals who flourish under it. 'Nuff said.

 

[jopsuk]

So, are you suggesting taking away his benefits, splitting up the family, and possibly putting the kids in care? That'll cost us even more...

 

[BestWestern]

So, are you suggesting taking away his benefits, splitting up the family, and possibly putting the kids in care? That'll cost us even more...

I'm not entirely sure what the 'ideal' solution is to this far from ideal situation. But, I'm fairly certain that the current approach is not the best way to deal with it. There is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for people such as this to go out and earn an honest wage, and there is every incentive for them to do as little as possible in life, leaving home only to get drunk or visit the Jobcentre and 'sign in' to guarantee this week's Giro. And that has little to do with the current economic climate so often used as a convenient excuse, which has made things no worse for this group of society as they had no intention of working anyway, and has far more to do with the hand-outs that us taxpayers generously gift to those who just can't be bothered. This situation has been going on for a very long time, and it needs a radical re-think to sort it.

 

[Greenback]

I'm not entirely sure what the 'ideal' solution is to this far from ideal situation. But, I'm fairly certain that the current approach is not the best way to deal with it. There is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for people such as this to go out and earn an honest wage, and there is every incentive for them to do as little as possible in life, leaving home only to get drunk or visit the Jobcentre and 'sign in' to guarantee this week's Giro. And that has little to do with the current economic climate so often used as a convenient excuse, which has made things no worse for this group of society as they had no intention of working anyway, and has far more to do with the hand-outs that us taxpayers generously gift to those who just can't be bothered. This situation has been going on for a very long time, and it needs a radical re-think to sort it.

We don;t know the circumstance sof this person or their life. It is all too easy to jump to conclusions. It is possible, althoug unlikely, that the man in question is not permanently on benefits at all, but is temporarily between jobs.

Similarly, he may not be a regular drinker at all. His brother may have bought him several drinks due to his relationship difficulties (they may well be caused by his unemployment). These drinks may have been too much for a person who is not used to alcohol, and this amy have caused atypical behaviour.

That said, I have no doubt that there are quite a few people who do abuse the system. Some may simply be idle, while others may be on the fiddle by working in the black market as well as claiming benefits for a bad back or whatever.

On the other hand, there are far more who rely on a safety net at certain times in their life, whether it be due to illness, injury, or being out of work. No system is ever going to be perfect, but what we need are some proper proposals to help to reduce the number of fraudulent claims.

 

[TDK]

So, are you suggesting taking away his benefits, splitting up the family, and possibly putting the kids in care? That'll cost us even more...

It seems he was spending his benefits on a drink with his brother - maybe he needs councelling on money management and then the family may benefit from his money

 

[ukrob]

Without wishing to come across all liberal, because I'm not, there is an awful lot of speculation going on in this thread, something we, as rail staff, often tell people not to do in threads concerning operating incidents.

You don't know if he used any of his own money to buy alcohol to start with yet want to take his benefits away!

Community service is more appropriate for this offence as a fine will be taken out of his benefits at a maximum of £5/week. And yes, in it's current form, community service is too lax - but that is another thread.

 

[dieselbashdave]

What could be done could be banning him from taking a train; if I went on the road completely smashed I could expect to be banned from driving.

Likewise if people can't behave sensibly on the public transport, they should not be allowed to use it until such a time that they can demonstrate their ability to use it properly!

 

[Greenback]

Without wishing to come across all liberal, because I'm not, there is an awful lot of speculation going on in this thread, something we, as rail staff, often tell people not to do in threads concerning operating incidents.

You don't know if he used any of his own money to buy alcohol to start with yet want to take his benefits away!

Community service is more appropriate for this offence as a fine will be taken out of his benefits at a maximum of £5/week. And yes, in it's current form, community service is too lax - but that is another thread.

I quite agree. I don't think I am a liberal, but I think the same!

 

[dieselbashdave]

What could be done could be banning him from taking a train; if I went on the road completely smashed I could expect to be banned from driving.

Likewise if people can't behave sensibly on the public transport, they should not be allowed to use it until such a time that they can demonstrate their ability to use it properly!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder why my response was posted twice?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I quite agree. I don't think I am a liberal, but I think the same!

You are not the only one who thinks as you do, with regard to this specific case.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Fine or Community service I dont mind which as both are cheaper for the rest of us than prison. Don't forget the real punishment for him is the criminal record which means he goes straight to the back of the que for jobs. Thus guaranteeing he wont be able to get a job or pay taxes. Who wins ?. I would rather give peole like this a damn good flogging and no criminal record, he is worth more to us as a reformed character (one can only hope). Instead we do the politically correct thing of not inflicting pain and then screw his chances of reform for five or more years. His best chance of making a living in the coming years is to steal - oh how about copper wire !. He wont be worried by the risk of getting a criminal record as he already has one !. Think back - how serious was the original crime ?.

What we need to do is reduce crime not punish it after it happens.

 

[dieselbashdave]

Fine or Community service I dont mind which as both are cheaper for the rest of us than prison. Don't forget the real punishment for him is the criminal record which means he goes straight to the back of the que for jobs. Thus guaranteeing he wont be able to get a job or pay taxes. Who wins ?. I would rather give peole like this a damn good flogging and no criminal record, he is worth more to us as a reformed character (one can only hope). Instead we do the politically correct thing of not inflicting pain and then screw his chances of reform for five or more years. His best chance of making a living in the coming years is to steal - oh how about copper wire !. He wont be worried by the risk of getting a criminal record as he already has one !. Think back - how serious was the original crime ?.

What we need to do is reduce crime not punish it after it happens.

Definitely food for thought